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Delta Wants To Be 797 Launch Customer

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Old Jun 28, 2018, 8:00 am
  #121  
 
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Delta is ordering 50+ 797s. Go to Vegas and bet on it.
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Old Jun 28, 2018, 8:37 am
  #122  
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Replace the 18 757 lie-flats that entered into (TWA) service 1996-1999. Replace the 16 753s that entered service 2002-03. Replace the 58 767-300ERs that entered service 1990-2001. Plan for some growth in frames, not just upgauging. Fifty would be a good start.
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Old Jun 28, 2018, 2:32 pm
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Longboater
Delta is ordering 50+ 797s. Go to Vegas and bet on it.
Boeing will need to offer the plane first. But, yes, if they do offer it and it has the capabilities and price being discussed, I would think all of the US majors will place orders.
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Old Jun 28, 2018, 2:53 pm
  #124  
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It is silly to expect a good deal on new aircraft. It's just like any new product. When 4K televisions first debuted they were quite expensive. Now that the technology has matured the prices have come down considerably. If you want the latest and greatest then you will have to pay for it. Ed is talking about wanting cheap prices. Sorry, that's just not in the picture.
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Old Jun 28, 2018, 5:14 pm
  #125  
 
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare
It is silly to expect a good deal on new aircraft. It's just like any new product. When 4K televisions first debuted they were quite expensive. Now that the technology has matured the prices have come down considerably. If you want the latest and greatest then you will have to pay for it. Ed is talking about wanting cheap prices. Sorry, that's just not in the picture.
Being a launch customer can result in cheaper pricing - but it makes operations harder (first year reliability for brand new airframes is comparatively low, and there is a greater risk of complete fleet groundings - e.g., 787 battery issues).
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Old Jun 28, 2018, 7:57 pm
  #126  
 
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United will likely receive the first aircraft, but Delta should receive their first not too long after United. Delta needs both versions to replace their 767-300ER and 767-400ERs as the 400ERs will be coming up on 30 years by the end of next decade. Delta will probably split between the smaller and larger version of the aircraft. The rumoured 797-8X will trade size for range and will have a range of 4,200 nm, a bit further than their 75S fleet. This a plane for JFK/DTW-Europe while the 7X, smaller and longer range at 5,000 nm, will do ATL-Europe/Deep South America. I expect Delta will order 60 of these and may go for a small A321neo LR fleet for flights to Europe that are just too small for the 797. Deep South America is probably switching over to mostly A330ceos and Pacific flying A330neo/77L/A350.
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Old Jun 28, 2018, 8:37 pm
  #127  
 
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If the 797 is a what I keep reading it is, all three US airlines will be buying it. It's what they have been wanting since the 757 went out of production. There is no Airbus product that competes with this plane.
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Old Jun 28, 2018, 10:25 pm
  #128  
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare
It is silly to expect a good deal on new aircraft. It's just like any new product. When 4K televisions first debuted they were quite expensive. Now that the technology has matured the prices have come down considerably. If you want the latest and greatest then you will have to pay for it. Ed is talking about wanting cheap prices. Sorry, that's just not in the picture.
All the discussion I’ve seen suggests that nobody is willing to pay a premium for this plane. Either Boring delivers it at a competitive price or the plane flops.
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Old Jun 28, 2018, 10:37 pm
  #129  
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Originally Posted by pbarnette


All the discussion I’ve seen suggests that nobody is willing to pay a premium for this plane. Either Boring delivers it at a competitive price or the plane flops.
I can't think of any Boeing commerical aircraft that has been a flop. Variants yes, such as the 737-600, but not models. Boeing has done the market studies and if there is enough demand then they will build it. It won't be as expensive as the 787 but they certainly won't be giving it away. It's a brand new plane, not an end of life product like the 737-900 and A321ceo Delta ordered at cheap prices. R&D, tooling, etc must be paid off. After that the price can be lowered. We have finally seen production costs of the 787 decrease and Boeing has been able to offer it at a competitive price and it has kicked the A330neo in the rear. Operators have even canceled their A330neo orders and bought up the 787-9 instead. That's really something that a new airplane can compete on price against a rewarmed plane developed in the 1980's.
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Old Jun 29, 2018, 8:32 am
  #130  
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare
Boeing has done the market studies and if there is enough demand then they will build it.

And said demand depends upon the price being low enough.

Originally Posted by readywhenyouare
R&D, tooling, etc must be paid off. After that the price can be lowered.
That isn’t really the way it works.
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Old Jun 29, 2018, 9:07 am
  #131  
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Originally Posted by pbarnette
That isn’t really the way it works.[/left][/left]
RWYA is an expert at running multi-billion dollar aerospace companies. I wouldn't question his judgement.
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Old Jun 29, 2018, 10:53 am
  #132  
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Originally Posted by pbarnette

And said demand depends upon the price being low enough.



That isn’t really the way it works.
Originally Posted by pvn
RWYA is an expert at running multi-billion dollar aerospace companies. I wouldn't question his judgement.
Yet neither one of you have told me why I am wrong....
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Old Jun 29, 2018, 11:28 pm
  #133  
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare
Yet neither one of you have told me why I am wrong....
Because prices aren’t a function of costs. Costs may influence a firm’s decision to offer a product, but prices aren’t determined by a cost + margin equation.

I am sure UCF has courses that can explain it.
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Old Jun 30, 2018, 6:39 am
  #134  
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Originally Posted by pbarnette



I am sure UCF has courses that can explain it.
are you sure? it's usually covered in high school-level economics.
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