Delta Wants To Be 797 Launch Customer

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Old Feb 18, 18, 3:51 pm
  #76  
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Originally Posted by apolloms View Post
sure. I'm a major airline pilot. I've flown with countless other pilots that have flown both. It makes no difference which one you fly first. The hardest part of the transition is the completely different FMS. Someone that has spent 10 years on a boeing transitioning to airbus is going to have the exact same problems as someone that has spent 10 years on an airbus switching to boeing.
Airbus is the odd man out with their non-responsive flight sticks, throttles, and flight envelope system. Most every pilot has used a convention flight control column before getting into an Airbus. With Boeing, Embraer, Bombardier (except C SERIES), Cessna, Gulfsfream, Beech, etc. all using pretty much the same system it stands to reason that an Airbus pilot has previous flying experience with it. That's why I said I would think it would easier for an Airbus pilot to transition to Boeing as they almost certainly have precious experience in similar aircraft.
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Old Feb 18, 18, 4:03 pm
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Originally Posted by apolloms View Post
the forum you linked is general aviation pilots who even admitted they have never flown either...not a stellar source. Had you said that about MD88 training i'd absolutely agree with you.
I first saw it on a blog from a Jetblue pilot going from the E190 to the A320. I'll see if I can find it for you. I'm not sure why some of you take Airbus so personally. I like Boeing but I even said that Delta should move to an all Airbus fleet to achieve better efficiency since they will have so few Boeings in the fleet in a few years.
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Old Feb 18, 18, 4:41 pm
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post


Airbus is the odd man out with their non-responsive flight sticks, throttles, and flight envelope system. Most every pilot has used a convention flight control column before getting into an Airbus. With Boeing, Embraer, Bombardier (except C SERIES), Cessna, Gulfsfream, Beech, etc. all using pretty much the same system it stands to reason that an Airbus pilot has previous flying experience with it. That's why I said I would think it would easier for an Airbus pilot to transition to Boeing as they almost certainly have precious experience in similar aircraft.
that's really not a big deal though. An airplane is an airplane.
Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post


I first saw it on a blog from a Jetblue pilot going from the E190 to the A320. I'll see if I can find it for you. I'm not sure why some of you take Airbus so personally. I like Boeing but I even said that Delta should move to an all Airbus fleet to achieve better efficiency since they will have so few Boeings in the fleet in a few years.
i think you have me confused. I currently fly a boeing and i'm of the opinion that airbus offers a superior cockpit product.
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Old Feb 18, 18, 4:48 pm
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Originally Posted by apolloms View Post
i think you have me confused. I currently fly a boeing and i'm of the opinion that airbus offers a superior cockpit product.
Why are you flying the Boeing then? Higher pay?

And I disagree that an Airbus is just like any other airplane. Had the crew of FedEx 705 been in an A330 the FO wouldn't have been able to maneuver the aircraft to subdue the hijacker. You know very well that the Airbus limits control inputs.
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Old Feb 18, 18, 4:57 pm
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post


Why are you flying the Boeing then? Higher pay?

And I disagree that an Airbus is just like any other airplane. Had the crew of FedEx 705 been in an A330 the FO wouldn't have been able to maneuver the aircraft to subdue the hijacker. You know very well that the Airbus limits control inputs.
better trips on the boeing. but you're right, i've only been flying professionally in both the military and the airlines 10+ years, you probably know better.
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Old Feb 18, 18, 5:03 pm
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Originally Posted by apolloms View Post
better trips on the boeing. but you're right, i've only been flying professionally in both the military and the airlines 10+ years, you probably know better.
So I was wrong in mentioning that an Airbus limits pitch attitude and bank angle (control inputs)? If you prefer the Airbus then that's great but let's not avoid the facts.
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Old Feb 18, 18, 5:06 pm
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
So forums...... not exactly credible sources or even your personal experience.....

Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
And I disagree that an Airbus is just like any other airplane. Had the crew of FedEx 705 been in an A330 the FO wouldn't have been able to maneuver the aircraft to subdue the hijacker. You know very well that the Airbus limits control inputs.

You think either Boeing or Airbus is designing aircraft and flight envelopes based around a single case like FedEx 705?
And you do realize the NTSB cited the Airbus flight envelope protections as part of what enabled Sully to maintain optimum angle of attack and land (or ditch) US 1549 so well in the Hudson without risking a stall?
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Old Feb 18, 18, 5:11 pm
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Originally Posted by ATOBTTR View Post
You think either Boeing or Airbus is designing aircraft and flight envelopes based around a single case like FedEx 705?
And you do realize the NTSB cited the Airbus flight envelope protections as part of what enabled Sully to maintain optimum angle of attack and land (or ditch) US 1549 so well in the Hudson without risking a stall?
We've been through flight 1549 before. They got very lucky. The same system that worked in their favor could have just as well have ended very badly. Luckily they had enough altitude to trade for airspeed. But when the Airbus senses a loss of airspeed it will pitch the nose down. Had they run low on airspeed they could have taken a dive into the Hudson. Fortunately they didn't.
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Old Feb 18, 18, 5:33 pm
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
We've been through flight 1549 before. They got very lucky. The same system that worked in their favor could have just as well have ended very badly. Luckily they had enough altitude to trade for airspeed. But when the Airbus senses a loss of airspeed it will pitch the nose down. Had they run low on airspeed they could have taken a dive into the Hudson. Fortunately they didn't.
I'll stick with the facts of the NTBS report. Thanks.
US 1549 NTSB Report
The airplane’s airspeed in the last 150 feet of the descent was low enough to activate the alpha-protection mode of the airplane’s fly-by-wire envelope protection features. The captain progressively pulled aft on the sidestick as the airplane descended below 100 feet, and he pulled the sidestick to its aft stop in the last 50 feet, indicating that he was attempting to raise the airplane nose to flare and soften the touchdown on the water. The A320 alpha-protection mode incorporates features that can attenuate pilot sidestick pitch inputs. Because of these features, the airplane could not reach the maximum AOA attainable in pitch normal law for the airplane weight and configuration; however, the airplane did provide maximum performance for the weight and configuration at that time.
The Airbus simulation indicated that the captain’s aft sidestick inputs in the last 50 feet of the flight were attenuated, limiting the ANU response of the airplane even though about 3.5 of margin existed between the airplane’s AOA at touchdown (between 13 and 14) and the maximum AOA for this airplane weight and configuration (17.5). Airbus’ training curricula does not contain information on the effects of alpha-protection mode features that might affect the airplane’s response to pilot sidestick pitch inputs. The flight envelope protections allowed the captain to pull full aft on the sidestick without the risk of stalling the airplane.
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...ts/AAR1003.pdf
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Old Feb 18, 18, 5:39 pm
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Originally Posted by ATOBTTR View Post
I'll stick with the facts of the NTBS report. Thanks.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...ts/AAR1003.pdf
Suit yourself. But with no engines the only way to gain airspeed is to pitch the nose down. And that's just what the Airbus stall protection system would have done.
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Old Feb 18, 18, 6:09 pm
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Don't bother, OP is a well-known Airbus hater and will use any rumor or conjecture that supports bashing of Airbus, true or not. If people aren't interested in the truth they aren't worth trying to educate.

And FWIW, I prefer Boeing. But also live in reality.
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Old Feb 18, 18, 6:39 pm
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Originally Posted by CPMaverick View Post
Don't bother, OP is a well-known Airbus hater and will use any rumor or conjecture that supports bashing of Airbus, true or not. If people aren't interested in the truth they aren't worth trying to educate.

And FWIW, I prefer Boeing. But also live in reality.
Yes, I've certainly observed that. The main reason I continue to point it out is this is an open forum as while OP is entitled to his own opinion, he's not entitled to his own facts, so I'll correct them for the education of others who come across OP's posts. And I also tend to prefer Boeing too (and I have USAF flight test experience on two different Boeing platforms) though I don't go out of my way to pick one or the other from the Boeing versus Airbus standpoint when traveling. If I'm picking one over the other, it's for cabin configuration (seats), which is more airline dependent or to get a new aircraft type that I haven't flown before. But I'm not any more or less concerned about my safety on an Airbus versus a Boeing jet.
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Old Feb 18, 18, 6:42 pm
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Originally Posted by CPMaverick View Post
Don't bother, OP is a well-known Airbus hater and will use any rumor or conjecture that supports bashing of Airbus, true or not. If people aren't interested in the truth they aren't worth trying to educate.

And FWIW, I prefer Boeing. But also live in reality.
What did I say that was false? Tell me why I am wrong instead of just spewing personal attacks.

And btw, I said earlier that we shouldn't go down the rabbit hole again but I guess you all can't resist. Why do you all care so much about my feelings toward a particular airplane? That's what has me bewildered.
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Old Feb 18, 18, 7:07 pm
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
What did I say that was false? Tell me why I am wrong instead of just spewing personal attacks.

Other people have beat me to that already. But as I said, you aren't affected by those replies.

Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
And btw, I said earlier that we shouldn't go down the rabbit hole again but I guess you all can't resist. Why do you all care so much about my feelings toward a particular airplane? That's what has me bewildered.
I don't care, I'm just trying to help others from wasting their time.

Over and out
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Old Feb 18, 18, 8:00 pm
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post


So I was wrong in mentioning that an Airbus limits pitch attitude and bank angle (control inputs)? If you prefer the Airbus then that's great but let's not avoid the facts.
they are only limited in normal law, they are not limited in alternate or direct law...those are facts.
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