I got downgraded. Help please.
Feb 9, 2018, 6:07 am
#61
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
DL is the ticketing carrier and his demand to DL ought to be to have the original outbound ticket reinstated, e.g. PE.
VS is the operating carrier of the downgraded segment. EC 261/2004 is specific about who is responsible and what the refund is. While consumers are free to negotiate, there is no reason to make a claim under the Regulation for less than the law clearly permits. That refund claim is for 75% of the base PE fare paid by OP.
Feb 9, 2018, 6:49 am
#62
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MEM
Programs: Starbucks Green Card
Posts: 5,431
I got downgraded today - was first on the UG list, two seats open for FC from MSP to TUS.
T-60 minutes, saw in my app I got the upgrade to 3b. I reload a few minutes later and then it says 'upgraded/26a'.
I go up to gate agent - He admits to upgrading me and then realizing that 'two people had paid first tickets but didn't have seats selected'.
Oh well - Disappointing, but whatever.
T-60 minutes, saw in my app I got the upgrade to 3b. I reload a few minutes later and then it says 'upgraded/26a'.
I go up to gate agent - He admits to upgrading me and then realizing that 'two people had paid first tickets but didn't have seats selected'.
Oh well - Disappointing, but whatever.
Feb 9, 2018, 7:06 am
#63
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,510
A screenshot of the seat assignment on DL.com is my ace card for VS flights. The two systems are not well integrated. But once they BOTH show you in PE, the only conceivable downgrade is at the gate. It requires an extra step calling VS where a supervisor can modify the PNR to assign you a seat. Then you go back to DL.com and preserve it for the ages.
Feb 9, 2018, 7:24 am
#64
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: New York, New York
Programs: AA Gold, Alaska MVP; Free Agent Super Duper Diamond Treasure Chest ;)
Posts: 4,682
Just trying to make sense. (PE) Ticket was first purchased online on Delta, you then called Air France using a number found on Google.
Air France re-ticketed you as Economy for outbound and Business for return (by mistake / misunderstanding)
You call Virgin and Delta to fix this?
Why not call back Air France to fix the mistake or re-instate back to original PE if you prefer not to pay (900 + 480) for the Business upgrade?
Would you have taken the buy-up at 1,380?
Air France re-ticketed you as Economy for outbound and Business for return (by mistake / misunderstanding)
You call Virgin and Delta to fix this?
Why not call back Air France to fix the mistake or re-instate back to original PE if you prefer not to pay (900 + 480) for the Business upgrade?
Would you have taken the buy-up at 1,380?
Feb 9, 2018, 9:37 am
#65
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: 45° North
Programs: DL DM MM, HH Diamond
Posts: 10,196
Starting out by conceding the end game is a poor negotiation tactic. He also has two places to complaint, but has to make a choice on outcome.
DL is the ticketing carrier and his demand to DL ought to be to have the original outbound ticket reinstated, e.g. PE.
VS is the operating carrier of the downgraded segment. EC 261/2004 is specific about who is responsible and what the refund is. While consumers are free to negotiate, there is no reason to make a claim under the Regulation for less than the law clearly permits. That refund claim is for 75% of the base PE fare paid by OP.
DL is the ticketing carrier and his demand to DL ought to be to have the original outbound ticket reinstated, e.g. PE.
VS is the operating carrier of the downgraded segment. EC 261/2004 is specific about who is responsible and what the refund is. While consumers are free to negotiate, there is no reason to make a claim under the Regulation for less than the law clearly permits. That refund claim is for 75% of the base PE fare paid by OP.
The OP isn't going to get the EC compensation as they agreed to the reticketing, even in the lower cabin. Proving that the AF agent failed to notify of the change in class of service on the return is going to be next to impossible. The OP should try the customer service route, IMO.
Feb 9, 2018, 11:25 am
#66
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta PM, 1MM
Posts: 3,784
I’m curious about something. If the OP had checked his reservation on delta.com immediately after the call to AF and caught the downgrade right away, rather than when VS (Or Delta?) sent him an email about it, would he have been able to call back and restore the original reservation? Or was the change immediately irrevocable?
Feb 9, 2018, 11:29 am
#67
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,414
I’m curious about something. If the OP had checked his reservation on delta.com immediately after the call to AF and caught the downgrade right away, rather than when VS sent him an email about it, would he have been able to call back and restore the original reservation?
I don't know about restore, but IME reissuing a ticket triggers a new 24 hour risk free cancellation.
Feb 9, 2018, 12:23 pm
#68
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta PlM, 1M
Posts: 6,363
But in this case, with the pax complaining that the re-issue was not what they asked for and is still only 2 days out, I would expect DL would reverse it if pressed.
Unless I missed it, OP never asked DL to simply restore the entire original fare and refund the upgrade cost,. That is the reasonable solution to the issue.
Feb 9, 2018, 1:23 pm
#69
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 324
I did try to reverse everything but they said that because of the price difference from when I bought the ticket to now I'd have to pay the $480 at a minimum. Even then it was never a possibility to reverse the upgrade charge of $900.
Feb 9, 2018, 1:53 pm
#70
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta PM, 1MM
Posts: 3,784
How soon after the changes were made did you try to reverse it? Was it less than 24 hours?
Feb 9, 2018, 1:56 pm
#71
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MEM
Programs: Starbucks Green Card
Posts: 5,431
It shouldn't matter how long it was or what the current price of the ticket is. If he bought X, and then someone fat fingered something and downgraded him to Y, he should get X back for no cost.
Feb 9, 2018, 3:30 pm
#72
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 324
I called back literally within minutes. At one point I was told that it was too late and nothing could be done until the next day. Even if I had canceled the upgrade within 24 hours that would have left me with no flight and I would have had to repurchase the original flight at the higher price anyways. I would also have presumably been out the cost of the original flight as well since that was a nonrefundable ticket booked months ago.
Feb 9, 2018, 4:09 pm
#73
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,414
I called back literally within minutes. At one point I was told that it was too late and nothing could be done until the next day. Even if I had canceled the upgrade within 24 hours that would have left me with no flight and I would have had to repurchase the original flight at the higher price anyways. I would also have presumably been out the cost of the original flight as well since that was a nonrefundable ticket booked months ago.
This is where I see a real red flag. I think the mistake is easy enough to understand, but there is no reason that they could not have undone what was just done. Yes, it would have taken some work, and involved calling supervisors and international reissue and possibly partners at AF and VS, but it could have been done had someone been motivated to roll up their sleeves and do it.
Feb 9, 2018, 4:12 pm
#74
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 324
This is where I see a real red flag. I think the mistake is easy enough to understand, but there is no reason that they could not have undone what was just done. Yes, it would have taken some work, and involved calling supervisors and international reissue and possibly partners at AF and VS, but it could have been done had someone been motivated to roll up their sleeves and do it.
Feb 9, 2018, 4:26 pm
#75
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
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Posts: 50,262
Stating your expectations for a successful resolution is the first step to beginning the negotiation. I have never had Delta refuse a reasonable suggestion for compensation (i.e. credit vouchers for service issues, refunds of cell phone bills when Delta messed up an international schedule change). But those requests were stated early on in my communication with them.
The OP isn't going to get the EC compensation as they agreed to the reticketing, even in the lower cabin. Proving that the AF agent failed to notify of the change in class of service on the return is going to be next to impossible. The OP should try the customer service route, IMO.
The OP isn't going to get the EC compensation as they agreed to the reticketing, even in the lower cabin. Proving that the AF agent failed to notify of the change in class of service on the return is going to be next to impossible. The OP should try the customer service route, IMO.
That is a downgrade. EC 261/2004 is clear. Making a claim under the Regulation for less than it requires is admitting that you have no case.
VS make pay out. If it does, OP has a nice fat bank transfer. If it does not, OP can do a SCC claim in the UK with a telephonic hearing. Who knows, a judge might believe him and order the payment. Or, the day he files, VS may well offer something reasonable.