May 27, 2018, 12:36 pm
Last edit by: audidudi
DRAFT WIKI: I've started this on May 27, 2018 as a first pass, but need to pull more info from the rest of the thread. Feel free to add!
What flights are eligible to be upgraded?
As relevant to this thread, original booking must be:
- DL ticketed (006 stock)
- DL marketed (DL flight #)
- VS operated
NOTE ON MIXED CABIN BOOKINGS: If you are booked in coach for a domestic portion on Delta and then connecting to a VS Premium Economy segment, and trying to upgrade only the VS PE segment with DL miles, the upgrade request may be rejected by Virgin when the DL agent attempt to process it. Ask to be transferred to the international reissue desk. Explain that they will need to remove the domestic coach portion of your flight, then process the upgrade, and then reattach the domestic Y portion. VS will accept the upgrade only when the coach segment has been removed, and this all needs to be done manually by Delta.
How do I know mileage upgrade space is available?
You can either call Delta and ask the agent to check or check online. If you are going to call, see note below about how to explain this to the phone agent. Or, follow instructions in the next section to check inventory online.
X
Checking online In advance:
- Upgrades on VS pull from the same inventory as award bookings. Upgrading to Upper Class requires G class inventory, upgrading to Premium Economy requires P class inventory. Note these are Virgin fare classes that will not display on delta.com. Delta's G and P fare classes are different and should not be considered for this purpose. Only a subset of G class inventory (and presumably also of P class inventory) is available for upgrades, so merely finding G availability via the Delta or Virgin websites, or via ExpertFlyer or other sources, does not necessarily mean an upgrade will be available. Unfortunately there is no public data source that can be used to double-check what Delta agents tell you about availability.
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At the Airport Day of Depature:
How do I request the upgrade?
What should I see if/when my upgrade is correctly processed?
Need more information on reticketing, seat selection, etc.
How much do upgrades cost?
Reports of upgrade costs are as follows (current as of May 2018):
- US<>UK, PE>UC = 25k RDM each way
- US<>UK, Y>UC = ???? each way
- US<>UK, Y>PE = ???? each way
When going from Y to PE/UC, you may need to pay the UK luxury tax (in USD or GBP) for flights exiting the UK.
When going from PE to UC, the luxury tax should not apply as it has already been charged on the PE fare.
A note about earning miles
Your upgraded ticket should still earn DL RDMs/MQMs/MQDs based on the originally purchased fare. However, the systems regularly get confused because the rebooked ticket will be identified as VS award inventory, ineligible for mileage earnings.
Keep your original (non-upgraded) receipt and monitor your miles earnings carefully. Calls or written requests via DL.com comments/complaints will result in proper mileage earnings being applied, but you may need to be persistent.
Need information about crediting flights to VS or other programs.
What flights are eligible to be upgraded?
As relevant to this thread, original booking must be:
- DL ticketed (006 stock)
- DL marketed (DL flight #)
- VS operated
NOTE ON MIXED CABIN BOOKINGS: If you are booked in coach for a domestic portion on Delta and then connecting to a VS Premium Economy segment, and trying to upgrade only the VS PE segment with DL miles, the upgrade request may be rejected by Virgin when the DL agent attempt to process it. Ask to be transferred to the international reissue desk. Explain that they will need to remove the domestic coach portion of your flight, then process the upgrade, and then reattach the domestic Y portion. VS will accept the upgrade only when the coach segment has been removed, and this all needs to be done manually by Delta.
How do I know mileage upgrade space is available?
You can either call Delta and ask the agent to check or check online. If you are going to call, see note below about how to explain this to the phone agent. Or, follow instructions in the next section to check inventory online.
X
Checking online In advance:
- Upgrades on VS pull from the same inventory as award bookings. Upgrading to Upper Class requires G class inventory, upgrading to Premium Economy requires P class inventory. Note these are Virgin fare classes that will not display on delta.com. Delta's G and P fare classes are different and should not be considered for this purpose. Only a subset of G class inventory (and presumably also of P class inventory) is available for upgrades, so merely finding G availability via the Delta or Virgin websites, or via ExpertFlyer or other sources, does not necessarily mean an upgrade will be available. Unfortunately there is no public data source that can be used to double-check what Delta agents tell you about availability.
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- Waitlisting is not available for mileage upgrades on Virgin Atlantic or any other partner flights.
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At the Airport Day of Depature:
- VS regularly offers DOD upgrades at the airport.
- Upgrades are available for cash (generally not the best value at ~$800 one way) or VS miles (same # miles as advance upgrades).
- DOD upgrades using miles can only be done with VS miles, not Delta Sky Miles.
- VS miles can be transferred from Amex MR. Transfer is usually instantaneous if you have linked your MR/VS accounts in advance, but as always Amex does not guarantee this so there is some risk involved in relying on the transfer while at the airport.
How do I request the upgrade?
- You'll need to call Delta. Be prepared to spend some time and persistence, and HUCA if necessary. Know that agents are likely to be confused about this, so be patient and call when you have time for them to research this and possibly speak with a supervisor.
- Consider saying something along these lines to the phone agent to help clue them in that this may be something they need to look up or get help with: "I am calling to upgrade, using Sky Miles, my Virgin Atlantic flight that I booked through Delta. I understand that this is a newer benefit that is now available through the Delta/Virgin Atlantic join-venture. I know from previously calling that this is not something all agents do regularly, so thanks so much for helping me figure this out."
- Remind the agent to check the VS flight # (not DL #) for upgrade space. Many agents may tell you you are already in a premium cabin if you're booked in VS PE, without realizing that DL's G class is not the same as VS's G class. Some may also insist that it is not possible to upgrade a VS flight with Sky Miles (it was not possible before July 2017). Be polite, but ask for a supervisor.
- Agents seem to find the correct instructions about all this when they look up the DL/VS joint venture notes in whatever system they use.
- Waitlisting is not available for mileage upgrades on Virgin Atlantic or any other partner flights.
What should I see if/when my upgrade is correctly processed?
- Your upgraded flight will now be a VS-marketed flight #.
- You will be rebooked into the appropriate VS fare class.
Need more information on reticketing, seat selection, etc.
How much do upgrades cost?
Reports of upgrade costs are as follows (current as of May 2018):
- US<>UK, PE>UC = 25k RDM each way
- US<>UK, Y>UC = ???? each way
- US<>UK, Y>PE = ???? each way
When going from Y to PE/UC, you may need to pay the UK luxury tax (in USD or GBP) for flights exiting the UK.
When going from PE to UC, the luxury tax should not apply as it has already been charged on the PE fare.
A note about earning miles
Your upgraded ticket should still earn DL RDMs/MQMs/MQDs based on the originally purchased fare. However, the systems regularly get confused because the rebooked ticket will be identified as VS award inventory, ineligible for mileage earnings.
Keep your original (non-upgraded) receipt and monitor your miles earnings carefully. Calls or written requests via DL.com comments/complaints will result in proper mileage earnings being applied, but you may need to be persistent.
Need information about crediting flights to VS or other programs.
Definitive Thread: Use Sky Miles to upgrade on VS
Jun 13, 2019, 9:14 am
#166
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Baltimore
Programs: Delta SM, Hilton Diamond, Marriott PE
Posts: 2
You are looking at the wrong info. The Skymiles rate for a UC award on VS is 86K miles one-way with 60-day advance purchase (CSMH860 award) and 135K with a 21-day advance purchase (CSMG1350 award). The rate with notadvance purchase requirement is 160K miles (CSM1600 award). The award levels with Skymiles and Flying Club are entirely independent of each other.
Jun 21, 2019, 3:56 am
#167
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: IPT
Programs: DL Diamond, Hilton Life Diamond, Hertz Presidents, former US former Charimans
Posts: 131
This is correct!
I convinced him to transfer me to the reissue desk. The agent there knew what to do.
The agents had to sell the upgrade into the Virgin flight number, not the Delta flight number, but they also had delete out my BOSJFK flight from the record, get the upgrade, and then put the BOSJFK back. The X fare on BOSJFK was causing Virgin to reject the upgrade from PE to UC because it still found X fares on the itinerary (so that the upgrade was ineligible). Yay for this DL agent who knew that! I'm going to write in to praise her.
The agents had to sell the upgrade into the Virgin flight number, not the Delta flight number, but they also had delete out my BOSJFK flight from the record, get the upgrade, and then put the BOSJFK back. The X fare on BOSJFK was causing Virgin to reject the upgrade from PE to UC because it still found X fares on the itinerary (so that the upgrade was ineligible). Yay for this DL agent who knew that! I'm going to write in to praise her.
Jun 21, 2019, 10:00 am
#168
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta PM, 1MM
Posts: 3,781
Does anyone have recent experience with a mileage upgrade award from PE to UC on a VS flight (in this case ATL-MAN and LHR-JFK) booked through Delta? A few days ago I was told that there was no availability but if there was it would cost 40K SkyMiles, which is a significant jump from the 25K I have paid in the past. I’ll call again, but would like to know what the current price is.
Jun 21, 2019, 10:10 am
#169
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ATL
Programs: DL Scattered Smothered Covered Medallion, Some hotel & car stuff, Kroger Plus Card
Posts: 10,745
Does anyone have recent experience with a mileage upgrade award from PE to UC on a VS flight (in this case ATL-MAN and LHR-JFK) booked through Delta? A few days ago I was told that there was no availability but if there was it would cost 40K SkyMiles, which is a significant jump from the 25K I have paid in the past. I’ll call again, but would like to know what the current price is.
Looks like a report from this month of PE>UC at 25k. If that has changed to 40k it is indeed a big jump.
But I also wouldn't be surprised if the phone rep was confusing the pricing with what is required to go from Y>UC or something like that.
Jul 13, 2019, 9:57 pm
#170
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: DL PM, MR Titanium/LTP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,130
Wondering if the Y ---> PE is worth it on the A330 or the A346...
I've got an RDU - LHR work trip coming up that I'm looking to book and it looks like I there is plenty of space on all the flights on my return date (expect on the A351 flight -- which is too bad) but seems like there are mixed reports on the A330/A346 PE and the only 787 flight doesn't leave London until 345pm which means late night arrival back at RDU.
Work trip books into H so I'm willing to go with the 35k cited above but want to make sure it's worth it on the A330/A346 vs. just sticking with C+ on the DL A330 or snagging an exit row on the new A351 VS departure
I've got an RDU - LHR work trip coming up that I'm looking to book and it looks like I there is plenty of space on all the flights on my return date (expect on the A351 flight -- which is too bad) but seems like there are mixed reports on the A330/A346 PE and the only 787 flight doesn't leave London until 345pm which means late night arrival back at RDU.
Work trip books into H so I'm willing to go with the 35k cited above but want to make sure it's worth it on the A330/A346 vs. just sticking with C+ on the DL A330 or snagging an exit row on the new A351 VS departure
Jul 14, 2019, 6:06 am
#171
Join Date: Nov 2018
Programs: DL DM, HH Gold
Posts: 96
Wondering if the Y ---> PE is worth it on the A330 or the A346...
I've got an RDU - LHR work trip coming up that I'm looking to book and it looks like I there is plenty of space on all the flights on my return date (expect on the A351 flight -- which is too bad) but seems like there are mixed reports on the A330/A346 PE and the only 787 flight doesn't leave London until 345pm which means late night arrival back at RDU.
Work trip books into H so I'm willing to go with the 35k cited above but want to make sure it's worth it on the A330/A346 vs. just sticking with C+ on the DL A330 or snagging an exit row on the new A351 VS departure
I've got an RDU - LHR work trip coming up that I'm looking to book and it looks like I there is plenty of space on all the flights on my return date (expect on the A351 flight -- which is too bad) but seems like there are mixed reports on the A330/A346 PE and the only 787 flight doesn't leave London until 345pm which means late night arrival back at RDU.
Work trip books into H so I'm willing to go with the 35k cited above but want to make sure it's worth it on the A330/A346 vs. just sticking with C+ on the DL A330 or snagging an exit row on the new A351 VS departure
Jul 14, 2019, 5:11 pm
#172
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: LAS - where you can get married and divorced in the same 24 hour period. Perfect for the woman who's saving herself for marriage and the man who wants a one night stand.
Programs: DL DM, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond, Marriott Platinum, UA, AA, AS, WN kettle, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,613
I’ve done this 3 times this year on LAS-LGW upgrading from PE to UC. The huge pain is getting credit. All three flights resulted in no credit. Contacting Delta would result in incremental fixes, credit as if it was a VS marketed on a VS ticket. Then additional credit as a PM. Then credit as a DL ticketed in coach and finally the proper credit (150% MQM). It took 4 months to get the correct credit. I contacted Delta via the web site, email, Twitter, phone and snail mail. 6 to 8 contacts flight.
While the upgrade for 25k is great, the process to get credit is horrible.
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While the upgrade for 25k is great, the process to get credit is horrible.
.
Jul 14, 2019, 6:02 pm
#173
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Mostly living in the basement
Programs: Newly minted free agent; MR LT(!)TE, HH SE, BA SECM, DL MM, UA PS, 2V Fanboi, CBP GE
Posts: 5,106
Wondering if the Y ---> PE is worth it on the A330 or the A346...
I've got an RDU - LHR work trip coming up that I'm looking to book and it looks like I there is plenty of space on all the flights on my return date (expect on the A351 flight -- which is too bad) but seems like there are mixed reports on the A330/A346 PE and the only 787 flight doesn't leave London until 345pm which means late night arrival back at RDU.
I've got an RDU - LHR work trip coming up that I'm looking to book and it looks like I there is plenty of space on all the flights on my return date (expect on the A351 flight -- which is too bad) but seems like there are mixed reports on the A330/A346 PE and the only 787 flight doesn't leave London until 345pm which means late night arrival back at RDU.
Jul 14, 2019, 6:11 pm
#174
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,050
I’ve done this 3 times this year on LAS-LGW upgrading from PE to UC. The huge pain is getting credit. All three flights resulted in no credit. Contacting Delta would result in incremental fixes, credit as if it was a VS marketed on a VS ticket. Then additional credit as a PM. Then credit as a DL ticketed in coach and finally the proper credit (150% MQM). It took 4 months to get the correct credit. I contacted Delta via the web site, email, Twitter, phone and snail mail. 6 to 8 contacts flight.
While the upgrade for 25k is great, the process to get credit is horrible.
.
While the upgrade for 25k is great, the process to get credit is horrible.
.
Jul 14, 2019, 6:28 pm
#175
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: DCA
Programs: DL DM, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 68
150% MQM is not correct credit — upgrades using certificates or miles earn MQMs and other benefits in the fare class originally purchased. (There is a loophole for GUCs on KLM but that’s a loophole, not the intended outcome.) You must have had an agent error in your favor.
I am in the same boat...just flew IAD-LHR and my miles posted like it was a VS flight (so more MQDs) and the rest of the family had theirs post like a DL flight. I just wish they could get it right without having to contact them 10 times.
Jul 14, 2019, 8:40 pm
#176
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,412
150% MQM is not correct credit — upgrades using certificates or miles earn MQMs and other benefits in the fare class originally purchased. (There is a loophole for GUCs on KLM but that’s a loophole, not the intended outcome.) You must have had an agent error in your favor.
As stated above this is incorrect. It has been discussed at length in this and other threads. The problem is that when you upgrade from paid PE (which earns 150%) to UC, DL's system reads your flight as an award flight, even though pax is still due credit from the paid portion of the itinerary.
Jul 15, 2019, 1:01 pm
#177
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,050
As stated above this is incorrect. It has been discussed at length in this and other threads. The problem is that when you upgrade from paid PE (which earns 150%) to UC, DL's system reads your flight as an award flight, even though pax is still due credit from the paid portion of the itinerary.
Aug 17, 2019, 10:11 am
#178
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Covington, KY
Posts: 28
NOTE ON MIXED CABIN BOOKINGS: If you are booked in coach for a domestic portion on Delta and then connecting to a VS Premium Economy segment, and trying to upgrade only the VS PE segment with DL miles, the upgrade request may be rejected by Virgin when the DL agent attempt to process it. Ask to be transferred to the international reissue desk. Explain that they will need to remove the domestic coach portion of your flight, then process the upgrade, and then reattach the domestic Y portion. VS will accept the upgrade only when the coach segment has been removed, and this all needs to be done manually by Delta.
If it hasn't already been said, check award availability often. I checked JFK - LHR a few times a day for a few weeks before a seat was added for my flight. I noticed inventory on that route changes rapidly.
Aug 24, 2019, 6:40 pm
#179
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: LAS
Programs: DL PM, Honors Gold, Marriott Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 894
question about the ease of calling in for this upgrade. I've followed the instructions in the wiki. I can see G class availability when searching for the flight on DL.com but I do not see any miles availability when searching for the same flight on virgin's site. I've called twice and the first agent told me I couldn't upgrade at all and the second just said it wasn't available (and she looked under both the DL and VS flight number).
does the availability have to show up on both sites? is there something I need to be saying to help the agent along? Or is there actually some kind of user error on my part and I am misreading the instructions here.
For reference, the flight is VS105 / DL 4348 on October 13.
does the availability have to show up on both sites? is there something I need to be saying to help the agent along? Or is there actually some kind of user error on my part and I am misreading the instructions here.
For reference, the flight is VS105 / DL 4348 on October 13.
Aug 25, 2019, 10:32 am
#180
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,412
question about the ease of calling in for this upgrade. I've followed the instructions in the wiki. I can see G class availability when searching for the flight on DL.com but I do not see any miles availability when searching for the same flight on virgin's site. I've called twice and the first agent told me I couldn't upgrade at all and the second just said it wasn't available (and she looked under both the DL and VS flight number).
does the availability have to show up on both sites? is there something I need to be saying to help the agent along? Or is there actually some kind of user error on my part and I am misreading the instructions here.
For reference, the flight is VS105 / DL 4348 on October 13.
does the availability have to show up on both sites? is there something I need to be saying to help the agent along? Or is there actually some kind of user error on my part and I am misreading the instructions here.
For reference, the flight is VS105 / DL 4348 on October 13.
What class are you currently book in and what class are you trying to upgrade into?
G class needs to be available on virgin, not on DL, to upgrade a Premium Economy seat to a Upper Class seat. If the Virgin website is not showing a seat available for an award ticket (mileage) in the class you want to upgrade into, then there is not inventory available.
The G class that you are seeing on Delta is a delta fare class for Premium Economy, which is not the same thing as Virgin's G class which is their fare bucket for Upper Class mileage tickets. Does that help?
