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Effective March 1, 2018, Enhanced Requirements Service/Support Animals

Effective March 1, 2018, Enhanced Requirements Service/Support Animals

Old Jan 20, 2018, 9:16 pm
  #151  
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Originally Posted by LegalTender
No, it's black-and-white DOT policy

UA​​, AA implemented it earlier. Among others.

https://www.transportation.gov/indiv...upport-animals
"Can request" - not "require"
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Old Jan 20, 2018, 9:19 pm
  #152  
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This is a completely disingenious edit.

If you quoted that section in its entirety, you would have seen that the 48 hour requirement there doesn't mention animals of any sort:

Carriers may require up to 48 hours' advance notice for certain accommodations that require preparation time (e.g., respirator hook-up, transportation of an electric wheelchair on an aircraft with less than 60 seats).
Service and support animals do not require preparation time (in general).

Your presentation here is shameful and misleading.
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Old Jan 20, 2018, 9:28 pm
  #153  
 
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You can't ensure an animal can go 8 hours without relieving itself. ACA allows a 48-hour advance notice for "certain accommodations that require preparation time" and DL is probably hanging it's hat on that. DOT is reported to be aware of all this and is monitoring the policy.

The headline issue is ESAs. DL is breaking no new regulatory ground with 48 hour notice in spite of claims.
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Old Jan 21, 2018, 12:17 am
  #154  
 
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Originally Posted by justhere
​​​​​​Mom/Dad/Uncle John - how dare you die on a moment's notice? How am I supposed to plan in advance when you go and drop dead without warning.

You can get a passport in a day or two if needed but as you don't need one for a domestic flight, that shouldn't have any bearing on traveling domestically with a service (or ESA) animal. Two different things, two different regulations.

And last minute travel shouldn't mean you don't have to comply with the rules to justify the animal. If the only thing you cannot comply with is the 48 hours notice, do you really want to be the airline that denies travel for that reason and tried in the court of public opinion because someone didn't get to see their dying mother? I would imagine DL has some sort of process should last minute travel be needed. If I'm wrong, I'm sure it won't be long before that court convenes.
1. I am sure there are people in the DL hierarchy who can make an exception to the policy.

2. The law only requires a reasonable accomodation to people with legitimate disabilities. The notion that a 48 hour requirement would be considered unreasonable given both the fact that there has abuse of the ESA loophole and given the dangers of transporting uncrated animals in the cabin, seems highly unlikely to me.

3. DL's lawyers have vetted this policy.
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Old Jan 21, 2018, 1:09 am
  #155  
 
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
1. I am sure there are people in the DL hierarchy who can make an exception to the policy.

2. The law only requires a reasonable accomodation to people with legitimate disabilities. The notion that a 48 hour requirement would be considered unreasonable given both the fact that there has abuse of the ESA loophole and given the dangers of transporting uncrated animals in the cabin, seems highly unlikely to me.

3. DL's lawyers have vetted this policy.
Not sure I understand your post. #1 was what I said. #2 I never said 48 hour requirement was unreasonable. Just pointing out that it's not always possible. And as has been pointed out, that requirement was already available to airlines if they choose to use it for ESA's.

As for #3 , one would hope so although the new requirement does, on the surface, seem to violate the law with regard to service animals (not ESA's).
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Old Jan 21, 2018, 1:14 am
  #156  
 
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Originally Posted by justhere
Not sure I understand your post. #1 was what I said. #2 I never said 48 hour requirement was unreasonable. Just pointing out that it's not always possible. And as has been pointed out, that requirement was already available to airlines if they choose to use it for ESA's.

As for #3 , one would hope so although the new requirement does, on the surface, seem to violate the law with regard to service animals (not ESA's).
If 48 hours isn't possible, that doesn't mean the law requires it be waived. So long as it is a reasonable requirement writ large.
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Old Jan 21, 2018, 1:45 am
  #157  
 
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
If 48 hours isn't possible, that doesn't mean the law requires it be waived. So long as it is a reasonable requirement writ large.
Except for service animals (not ESA's), it seems there is generally no legal requirement to waive. It appears the opposite is true, that airlines cannot require advanced notice, with a few exceptions (no matter how large it's writ). That's why it'll be interesting to see how this plays out for people with service animals.
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Old Jan 21, 2018, 2:36 am
  #158  
 
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Originally Posted by josephstern
Maybe pvn only flies internationally? I see many fewer on those flights. Last several, I saw none..
There can be significant importation paperwork involved in taking an animal to another country from the United States. It very much depends on the country.

Also: "Pets taken out of the United States are subject upon return, to the same regulations as those entering for the first time."
(https://www.bringfido.com/travel/international/)

I usually fly internationally and have seen few animals on flights.
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Old Jan 21, 2018, 7:28 am
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Originally Posted by bgriff
I know this was a joke, but there is also now a list of animals that are not permitted, which appears to be new and also addresses some of the other more novel situations that have occurred. Under "animals not permitted" here:
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...e-animals.html

People trying to bring a pet dog or cat onboard as an emotional service animal could still make a fraudulent claim if they wanted, but some of the more creative animal choices are fully banned.
Can I consider my step mother to be in this list (even she have "horn" (not visible)) ???
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Old Jan 21, 2018, 9:30 am
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Originally Posted by Randomness
There can be significant importation paperwork involved in taking an animal to another country from the United States. It very much depends on the country.

Also: "Pets taken out of the United States are subject upon return, to the same regulations as those entering for the first time."
(https://www.bringfido.com/travel/international/)

I usually fly internationally and have seen few animals on flights.
Yup - I'm always very surprised to see animals on international flights, but I do see them. Last I remember was on a flight to Costa Rica.
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Old Jan 21, 2018, 9:41 am
  #161  
 
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This was extremely interesting as to the DOT's view on service animals. I do partially worry that those that are currently gaming the system will try to do the same by claiming their dog is a 'service animal' rather than a 'support' animal. I do wonder if there are any penalties to falsely claiming a service animal when your bluff is called and asked for proof. I don't put this kind of behavior past some of the passengers I interact with..
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Old Jan 21, 2018, 11:55 am
  #162  
 
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Originally Posted by justhere
Except for service animals (not ESA's), it seems there is generally no legal requirement to waive. It appears the opposite is true, that airlines cannot require advanced notice, with a few exceptions (no matter how large it's writ). That's why it'll be interesting to see how this plays out for people with service animals.
This is an incorrect reading of the statute. If Delta were hypothetically sued, the 48 hour requirement would be upheld unless it were found to be unreasonable, because even with bona fide disabilities, the statute requires only reasonable accomodations, and there are good reasons for an advance notice requirement.

The DOT's guidance is just that.

Last edited by dilanesp; Jan 21, 2018 at 12:17 pm
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Old Jan 21, 2018, 12:23 pm
  #163  
 
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
This is an incorrect reading of the statute. If Delta were hypothetically sued, the 48 hour requirement would be upheld unless it were found to be unreasonable, because even with bona fide disabilities, the statute requires only reasonable accomodations, and there are good reasons for an advance notice requirement.
Fair enough, and I'm by no means a legal expert, but could you explain how/where I'm reading it incorrectly? Seems pretty clear:

382.27 May a carrier require a passenger with a disability to provide advance notice in order to obtain certain specific services in connection with a flight?

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section and 382.133(e)(4) and (5) and (f)(5) and (6), as a carrier you must not require a passenger with a disability to provide advance notice in order to obtain services or accommodations required by this part.

The only reference to service animals is:

(8) Transportation of an emotional support or psychiatric service animal in the cabin;

(9) Transportation of a service animal on a flight segment scheduled to take 8 hours or more;


It seems clear that for an ESA or psychiatric service animals that the airline can require advance notice. Or if it's a flight over 8 hours, then service animals are also included. But nothing seems to indicate that a service animal on a flight under 8 hours can require advanced notice.
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Old Jan 21, 2018, 12:54 pm
  #164  
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Originally Posted by pushmyredbutton
This was extremely interesting as to the DOT's view on service animals. I do partially worry that those that are currently gaming the system will try to do the same by claiming their dog is a 'service animal' rather than a 'support' animal. I do wonder if there are any penalties to falsely claiming a service animal when your bluff is called and asked for proof. I don't put this kind of behavior past some of the passengers I interact with..
The difference is that many of the fake ESA's are those annoying small dogs. Any agent with a brain knows that is not a service animal, so if the passenger were to try to pass it off as a service animal, check in will be denied.

Submitting the paperwork is only one of two steps that must be done. The second is visual inspection at the check-in counter.

The documentation for ESA's is more stringent than service animals, because it is virtually impossible for an agent to tell if the passenger is a faker or not.

Finally, the 48 hour requirement is perfectly reasonable for 99% of passengers because the vast majority of people do not buy airline tickets at the last minute. For those who do and must bring the animal with them, hopefully Delta can simply move that person's paperwork processing to the head of the queue.
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Old Jan 21, 2018, 1:23 pm
  #165  
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Originally Posted by LegalTender
No, it's black-and-white DOT policy

UA​​, AA implemented it earlier. Among others.

https://www.transportation.gov/indiv...upport-animals
Thank you! ^

Facts are so useful.

Originally Posted by justhere
Maybe I missed it but that link states that the 48 hours is for ESA's. I doesn't see anything about Service Animals needing advanced notice. However it seems DL is requiring 48 hours for service animals so I'm curious to see if that gets challenged.
"Emotional Support and Psychiatric Service Animals - Airlines can request specific documentation and/or 48-hours advanced notice for service animals that are emotional support animals and psychiatric service animals."

Originally Posted by pvn
...Your presentation here is shameful and misleading.

A serious consideration of other links that Legal has cited would readily turn up the following:

How do airlines determine whether an animal is a service animal?
  • Airlines can determine whether an animal is a service animal or pet by:
    • The credible verbal assurances of an individual with a disability using the animal;
    • Looking for physical indicators such as the presence of a harness or tags;
    • Requiring documentation for psychiatric support animals and emotional support animals; and
    • Observing the behavior of animals.
  • Emotional Support and Psychiatric Service Animals - Airlines can request specific documentation and/or 48-hours advanced notice for service animals that are emotional support animals and psychiatric service animals.
What kind of documentation can be required of persons travelling with emotional support animals and psychiatric service animals?
  • Airlines may require documentation that is not older than one year from the date of your scheduled initial flight that states:
    • You have a mental or emotional disability that is recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM);
    • You need your emotional support or psychiatric support animal as an accommodation for air travel and/or for activity at your destination;
    • The individual providing the assessment is a licensed mental health professional and the passenger is under his/her professional care; and
    • The licensed health care professionals;
      • Date and type of professional license; and
      • Jurisdiction or state in which their license was issued.

I quoted more than was necessary to address your particular point. I did no to demonstrate that DL's new policy follows the DOT guidance.

https://www.transportation.gov/indiv...upport-animals

Last edited by Canarsie; Jan 21, 2018 at 3:01 pm Reason: Consolidation.
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