Quick TATL Crossings
Jan 15, 2018, 5:12 am
#16
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Virgin Atlantic has a nicely timed flight leaving Los Angeles around 5-5:30 p.m. that arrives into London around 11-11:30 a.m. I've taken that before. It works out well because by the time you deplane, make it through customs and immigration, get your bag and arrive in the Virgin Atlantic arrivals lounge, you can get a late breakfast/early lunch, shower and then head into London missing all of the morning traffic. Plus, your hotel room is more likely to be ready around 1-2 p.m. than it is at 7-8 a.m. There's also a last flight out of Detroit on Delta -- I think it's literally the last flight of the night -- that works well, too. I've done that before as well. Many times I ask the red jacket at the gate to put me in the last row of economy because the last 1-2 rows are almost always blocked out. Whenever I have done this I have had the entire row to myself, allowing me to lay out across the seats and sleep in poor man's business-class.
Jan 15, 2018, 5:17 am
#17
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This makes sense. There must be a certain number that can come in at a particular hour and we would have thrown things off. If you landed on a runway at AMS that was around civilization instead of the one that requires a taxi from what seems like Rotterdam, I'd understand it even more 
Yeah, glad I wasn't in J. Had a seat open next to me in coach and that was grand. A good couple days to be crossing the pond!
Yeah, glad I wasn't in J. Had a seat open next to me in coach and that was grand. A good couple days to be crossing the pond!
There's a KLM flight from Dubai that arrives at 6 a.m., but probably early on many days if there are good winds. I flew it once and had a layover of 7 or 8 hours before my flight home. I think I made it from customs and immigration at Amsterdam's airport to the train and into the city centre in time for sunrise. It was pretty easy arriving at that time of the morning. The hardest part was buying a ticket for the train, as the kiosks wouldn't take my U.S. credit card.
Jan 15, 2018, 5:33 am
#18
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If you have an flight that will arrive at 'night' (like DL 160 MSP-AMS) then they most likely have to use that lovely runway called the Polderbaan. The long taxiing time is no surprise as the Polderbaan (18R - 36L) is closer to Haarlem than to Amsterdam.
Jan 15, 2018, 6:13 am
#20
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There are considerations other than curfew. Operations also may consider staffing at the other end. Ultimately, the goal is to get to the destination on time. Departure time does not really matter that much.
Jan 15, 2018, 6:34 am
#21
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One reason I now try to eat dinner before the short JFK-LHR flights!
Jan 15, 2018, 8:25 am
#22
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JFK-LHR never seems worthwhile in J/F. I wish that they would not serve a meal at all and just go lights out as soon as the plane hits cruise. Feed J/F passengers in the lounge, and perhaps offer a cold plate to anyone who wants one on-board.
Seriously, 5 hours in J. What a waste.
Seriously, 5 hours in J. What a waste.
Also you could simply ask not to be disturbed and recline at cruise with your blindfolded sleep mask securely in place.
That at said I would never pay $$ for D1 on a 5 hour TATL eastbound. It does seem a waste unless you cannot sleep without lie flat seats. I have no problem sleeping with a slight Y recline.
Jan 15, 2018, 8:55 am
#23
Join Date: Dec 2017
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random cool link if you want a graphical depiction of what the winds are doing right now (it's kinda mesmerizing in a dorky way 
). Under "height" click 250mb for winds at 34,000 feet
https://earth.nullschool.net/#curren...4.90,38.31,814
). Under "height" click 250mb for winds at 34,000 feethttps://earth.nullschool.net/#curren...4.90,38.31,814
Delta One already offers a “dine and rest” option where the entire meal is served at once.
Also you could simply ask not to be disturbed and recline at cruise with your blindfolded sleep mask securely in place.
That at said I would never pay $$ for D1 on a 5 hour TATL eastbound. It does seem a waste unless you cannot sleep without lie flat seats. I have no problem sleeping with a slight Y recline.
AA does as well. Not sure what they call it off the top of my head. I intentionally avoid routing off the east coast for TATL specifically for this reason. It helps being midwest based, but even if I were on the east coast I'd still try to find something out of ORD/DFW/IAH/DEN when it comes to a redeye flight. Travel time doesn't bother me near as much as jacking up my sleep cycle.
On a day flight, that's a little different as I can wake up a few hours early and end up on schedule. I still prefer the overnight though.
Jan 15, 2018, 10:17 am
#25
Join Date: Aug 2017
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I think AMS's curfew ends pretty early because many Asian arrivals come in starting in the 4:00 hour.
Looking at model upper air data over the Atlantic, the jet stream has winds of over 150kts
Throughout today, it has been in a pretty good location. Eastbound aircraft can be routed northward to take advantage of this amazing tailwind, whereas westbound aircraft can be routed further south and avoid a headwind thanks to the location of the upper clockwise flow. I feel bad for anyone who bought J/F on either direction today
Looking at model upper air data over the Atlantic, the jet stream has winds of over 150kts
Throughout today, it has been in a pretty good location. Eastbound aircraft can be routed northward to take advantage of this amazing tailwind, whereas westbound aircraft can be routed further south and avoid a headwind thanks to the location of the upper clockwise flow. I feel bad for anyone who bought J/F on either direction today
It is nice that a decent westbound track exists. i once spent 10+ hours just going FRA-Dover
Last edited by wxman22; Jan 15, 2018 at 10:18 am Reason: typo
Jan 15, 2018, 12:47 pm
#26
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Or take the morning flight and don't sleep on the plane at all. (Even better, apparently VS now has wifi on these flights.)
Jan 15, 2018, 1:19 pm
#27
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Morning TATLs are the best! I love the 7:30AM BOS-LHR: get up a little early, get on the plane, take a nap, get some work done, land, eat dinner. Stay up until midnight to get your day length correct, wake up the next morning perfectly adjusted. No need to mess up your sleep schedule and it's perfectly comfortable to do in economy.
Jan 15, 2018, 1:37 pm
#28
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Lots of people can't sleep in coach. I can't. I can't sleep in domestic FC either. 50-60" pitch recliners (90s-mid-2000's J) were iffy. It wasn't until angled flat that I could reliably sleep (still need Ambien else i'll wake up after an hour). Full flats are better but incrementally so (the benefit these days is mainly all direct aisle access and more storage/shelf space).
i can function fine on 4 hrs of sleep, so if I need to be productive upon arrival in Europe, it's important to get that sleep, and fly in J.
BTW, the "dine-at-once" came very quickly the other night. I think most airlines have been offering this for years and years. VS/BA went a step further and had full preflight dining on shorter TATL routes and minimal inflight service. AA also has full dining in key cities. DL - well I guess you could cobble together enough in the Skyclub not to starve.
Jan 15, 2018, 1:50 pm
#29
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Jan 15, 2018, 2:27 pm
#30
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DL16 was only delayed 30 mins and will arrive at LHR at 06.06. There's a curfew until 04.30 at LHR, so it would still have arrived well after the curfew ended anyway, had it left on time! DL134 is estimated to arrive at 07.22, well after any curfew at AMS, so I don't understand the OPs thread! Neither flight would have landed during curfew hours at either airport!