DL to Offer Delta One Service ATL to HNL?
Nov 20, 2017, 1:03 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 43
DL to Offer Delta One Service ATL to HNL?
Over the last few weeks, I have been monitoring fare fro ATL to HNL for 2018. A week or so ago, I noticed something weird going on with the seat map for DL837 (either not available or showing no available seats). This flight has previously been listed as an A330 who the lie flats. Today, I noticed that this flight is now listed as a 767-400 with lie flats and is being marketed as Delta One Service. Has anyone heard anything about these change or is this possibly a glitch?
Last edited by UKFan78; Nov 20, 2017 at 1:12 pm
Nov 20, 2017, 1:19 pm
#3
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,204
Looks like the price is also going up, while giving free upgrades...with the new above market pricing (vs. UA, AA lie-flats with better service/food) may be the flights won't be fully sold out in J 2+ weeks prior to flight for many/most flights, thus actually having some be able to get an upgrade.
Nov 21, 2017, 12:43 am
#8
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: EYW
Programs: DL GM
Posts: 302
This route is downgauged (downgraded) from 333 to 764 beginning on Sunday March 25. Goes from the excellent 333 herringbone seats to the obsolete 764 Vantage seats - ugh. This removes just about the only good premium cabin to/from HNL. Now that we are getting the 764 on this route, it will probably stay that way for years until it is the last route in the DL system with this aircraft as it is being retired. May be similar to the case of the old 75V config - those were horrendous and flew almost all Hawaii routes before they were finally retired.
I don't know that going to D1 when we already had close to D1-type service on this route anyway is a good thing, when the price is a significant downgrade in the quality of the premium cabin.
DL will have a hard time selling these inferior Vantage seats at the price levels they were getting for the 333 cabin - so there may indeed be a fair number of upgrades available on day of departure.
Negative impact to Economy Comfort cabin also - goes from 40 seats in the 333 to 28 seats in the 764. And the B/F aisle seats have the equipment box underneath which hurts legroom.
I am surprised that DL is removing 47 seats from this route - every HNL-ATL or VV flight I have been on has been full on the 333. I wonder if they are going to add a second daily flight for peak seasons, or if those last 40 seats were usually filled by non-revs?
I don't know that going to D1 when we already had close to D1-type service on this route anyway is a good thing, when the price is a significant downgrade in the quality of the premium cabin.
DL will have a hard time selling these inferior Vantage seats at the price levels they were getting for the 333 cabin - so there may indeed be a fair number of upgrades available on day of departure.
Negative impact to Economy Comfort cabin also - goes from 40 seats in the 333 to 28 seats in the 764. And the B/F aisle seats have the equipment box underneath which hurts legroom.
I am surprised that DL is removing 47 seats from this route - every HNL-ATL or VV flight I have been on has been full on the 333. I wonder if they are going to add a second daily flight for peak seasons, or if those last 40 seats were usually filled by non-revs?
Nov 21, 2017, 9:25 am
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,023
This is not that unusual. Basic Economy fares tend to have more restrictions on fare combinations than the corresponding main cabin fares. If you actually click through on the fare options, you will see that the cheaper main cabin fare involves a broken fare combination on the return flights. The outbound ATL-LAX-HNL fare is a single XEWNLXML fare, but the cheaper return flights involve a broken fare -- KA0NHOMQ on HNL-LAX and VEVNA0MB for LAX-ATL. There are BE fares corresponding to those main cabin fares, but those BE fares are more restrictive when it comes to END-ON-END combinations, while the main cabin fares are less so. Here's the relevant fare combination sections --
VEVNA0MB main cabin fare
END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED
VEVNA0BA basic economy fare
END ON END MUST BE AN A-B-A COMBINATION
The A-B-A business means the BE fare can only be booked as ATL-LAX-ATL (A-B-A) and can't be combined with another fare to form a routing like HNL-LAX-ATL (which is not A-B-A routing).
So the only valid BE fares are single fare options with XEWNLXBQ for ATL-LAX-HNL and TEWNHXBQ for the HNL-LAX-ATL return. The TWENHXBQ BE fare is more expensive than the KA0NHOMQ and VEVNA0MB main cabin fare combo which leads to the total ticket cost being somewhat more.
VEVNA0MB main cabin fare
END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED
VEVNA0BA basic economy fare
END ON END MUST BE AN A-B-A COMBINATION
The A-B-A business means the BE fare can only be booked as ATL-LAX-ATL (A-B-A) and can't be combined with another fare to form a routing like HNL-LAX-ATL (which is not A-B-A routing).
So the only valid BE fares are single fare options with XEWNLXBQ for ATL-LAX-HNL and TEWNHXBQ for the HNL-LAX-ATL return. The TWENHXBQ BE fare is more expensive than the KA0NHOMQ and VEVNA0MB main cabin fare combo which leads to the total ticket cost being somewhat more.
Last edited by xliioper; Nov 21, 2017 at 9:39 am
Nov 21, 2017, 9:36 am
#11
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,414
This route is downgauged (downgraded) from 333 to 764 beginning on Sunday March 25. Goes from the excellent 333 herringbone seats to the obsolete 764 Vantage seats - ugh. This removes just about the only good premium cabin to/from HNL. Now that we are getting the 764 on this route, it will probably stay that way for years until it is the last route in the DL system with this aircraft as it is being retired. May be similar to the case of the old 75V config - those were horrendous and flew almost all Hawaii routes before they were finally retired.
I don't know that going to D1 when we already had close to D1-type service on this route anyway is a good thing, when the price is a significant downgrade in the quality of the premium cabin.
DL will have a hard time selling these inferior Vantage seats at the price levels they were getting for the 333 cabin - so there may indeed be a fair number of upgrades available on day of departure.
Negative impact to Economy Comfort cabin also - goes from 40 seats in the 333 to 28 seats in the 764. And the B/F aisle seats have the equipment box underneath which hurts legroom.
I am surprised that DL is removing 47 seats from this route - every HNL-ATL or VV flight I have been on has been full on the 333. I wonder if they are going to add a second daily flight for peak seasons, or if those last 40 seats were usually filled by non-revs?
I don't know that going to D1 when we already had close to D1-type service on this route anyway is a good thing, when the price is a significant downgrade in the quality of the premium cabin.
DL will have a hard time selling these inferior Vantage seats at the price levels they were getting for the 333 cabin - so there may indeed be a fair number of upgrades available on day of departure.
Negative impact to Economy Comfort cabin also - goes from 40 seats in the 333 to 28 seats in the 764. And the B/F aisle seats have the equipment box underneath which hurts legroom.
I am surprised that DL is removing 47 seats from this route - every HNL-ATL or VV flight I have been on has been full on the 333. I wonder if they are going to add a second daily flight for peak seasons, or if those last 40 seats were usually filled by non-revs?
While I agree with you that the A330 is superior to the 767, I think you are being a bit extreme. The 767 J seats are still considered excellent for a day time flight, and plenty of people still appreciate them for the ability to sleep on a flat bed, despite the issues with the footwell, storage, etc. In terms of Y, the differences between the A330 and the 767 are negligible. Both offer 2 seats on each side which are great for couples, and there is only one middle seat per row--in fact, many people on FT say that the 767 is their favorite Y cabin. DL could just as well have gone the other direction and pulled D1 service from HNL entirely, and you'd find yourself connecting in LAX to a 757 domestic F cabin.
Nov 21, 2017, 10:41 am
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
Retrofitting the 18 77Ls and 777s for Delta One suites next year may be leading to aircraft assignments based more on availability/utilization than avg fare optimization. Pull a 777 out of rotation, sub a 333, and then a 764 moves up where longest range isn't needed.
Nov 21, 2017, 3:19 pm
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast
Programs: AA CONCIERGE KEY & 1MM, HILTON DIAMOND
Posts: 11,970
Over the last few weeks, I have been monitoring fare fro ATL to HNL for 2018. A week or so ago, I noticed something weird going on with the seat map for DL837 (either not available or showing no available seats). This flight has previously been listed as an A330 who the lie flats. Today, I noticed that this flight is now listed as a 767-400 with lie flats and is being marketed as Delta One Service. Has anyone heard anything about these change or is this possibly a glitch?
Nov 21, 2017, 3:35 pm
#15
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: EYW
Programs: DL GM
Posts: 302
While I agree with you that the A330 is superior to the 767, I think you are being a bit extreme. The 767 J seats are still considered excellent for a day time flight, and plenty of people still appreciate them for the ability to sleep on a flat bed, despite the issues with the footwell, storage, etc. In terms of Y, the differences between the A330 and the 767 are negligible. Both offer 2 seats on each side which are great for couples, and there is only one middle seat per row--in fact, many people on FT say that the 767 is their favorite Y cabin. DL could just as well have gone the other direction and pulled D1 service from HNL entirely, and you'd find yourself connecting in LAX to a 757 domestic F cabin.
Given how close the existing HNL-ATL J service already is to D1 anyway, this feels like a downgrade to me, with a clearly inferior hard product and only slight improvements to the soft product.
Last edited by chrisj85; Nov 21, 2017 at 3:41 pm