TTT

I don't disagree and imagine Delta will offer something if the OP and family contact customer service after travel. I imagine the first priority was to get the reservation fixed/updated for travel.

cestmoi123

Exactly my point. You're creating your own definition for a term that already has a clear legal definition. There's a wide range of reasons for which one can be denied boarding when one wants to board. If you're going to reject the legal definition of IDB, there's no reason to accept your particular choice for what reasons qualify.

cestmoi123

That's exactly what I said. You have the right to a full refund at any time before your flight. The airline offers you the opportunity to waive that right in exchange for a discount on your ticket. You're free to accept that discount (and waive your cancellation rights) or not.

TTT

True - I misread your original post.

cestmoi123

That's exactly what I said: "You have the same right (to cancel your ticket at anytime and get a refund), unless you choose to waive that right in exchange for a discount."

Sure, they can deny any passengers they want with impunity (pretty much). Why would they? As I said, Delta could cancel and refund the tickets of everyone with a Q in their PNR. They'd give up a huge amount of revenue (very harmful in a business with minimal variable and huge fixed costs), and it would hurt their brand image, but they could.

cestmoi123

The reason for the IDB rules being what they are in the US is the nature of the incentives for the airline. In the first case, absent penalties for overselling resulting in IDB, the airline has an incentive to massively oversell, since the oversales only hurt the pax, not the airline. In the other cases, the airline is harmed as well, since it gives up revenue it could otherwise have captured.

RealHJ

However you still need to have your passport with you, along with the Nexus card..
I mean you can go into Canada just with Nexus without even showing passport no problem normally, but when you come back to US then after Global Entry you still need to show your passport, so you still need to carry it with you. Same if you cross by land border. Still need to show your passport also after scanning your Nexus card.

But yes, unlike AC and other airlines DL doesn't allow you to enter the Nexus number instead of passport in OLCI. Just typical DL, always behind the competition..

Detroiter

Okay, but there are times when the company needs to have its knuckles rapped by the nun to remind it that it should ensure its employees are properly trained and its internal procedures and documents are in order so that these kinds of situations don't happen. It's not the case this time, but what if the travel in question was to board a cruise, meaning a one-day delay in travel makes the cruise tickets worthless and the trip itself pointless?

I'm all in favor of empowering customer-facing employees, but we have to recognize that sometimes these empowered employees will go off on power trips at the expense of customers. There should be consequences for the company and the employee for a massive screw-up like this. And no, just taking one's business to UA or AA doesn't really do the trick, because, as is always noted in the threads about this or that change to SkyMiles being the last straw, DL really won't notice the loss of your business.

I'm not favoring a return to the days of cartelized route awards through the CAB and one-size-fits-all fares. I'm just saying there should be a mechanism short of going to court to force DL to pay up for a systemic screw-up such as this.

blue2002

Really? How?

MSPeconomist

As the victim on one of these "my travel documents were all in order but the DL employee insisted otherwise" incidents that *did* cause me to cancel the trip and another one where I was anxious for several hours at the airport about whether I would be permitted to board or not, I would be all in favor of a huge fine to punish DL plus a requirement that the responsible employee(s) be fired. That could force DL to train their people to use TIMATIC properly instead of trying to rely on what they "believe" at the expense of the customer.

cestmoi123

One solution would be a requirement that, if you say you have the proper docs, but the airline says you don't, the airline would be required to transport you anyway, on the condition that you sign a waiver accepting full responsibility for any costs the airline faces if you're refused entry and need to be transported back.

MSPeconomist

And what would be the punishment for the airline and employee for denying boarding when the documents are in order?

Under your proposed regulation. airlines could just defer to the passengers always and deny travel to anyone who cannot show sufficient resources to pay the fine.

flyerCO

Don't always have it. Ie need to send to Embassy for visa, traveled domestic and now need to goto Canada, etc...

Often1

No need for new laws or rules to accomplish that.

If you are denied entry for failure to produce docs. and the carrier is required to return you to your point of origin, you are already liable to the carrier for any fines and other expenses it may incur and if you don't have an onward or return segment on the carrier, it can charge you for the cost of transporting you as well.

But, with fines typically in the $10K range, it is far from clear that the average passenger is in a position to pony up.

There are also countries which will hold the aircraft until they have the passenger physically ready to boot out of the country and the passenger is a "must fly" meaning that someone else gets the boot if the aircraft is full.

While this particular instance is a bad one because DL was wrong, on balance flying people around the world with the carrier and the passenger's fingers crossed isn't an effective means of doing business.