777 D1 Suite Refit - PS + Comfort+

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Old Apr 21, 19, 1:40 am   -   Wikipost
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Delta 777-200ER/LR Conversions to 7HD & 7HB. Pre-mods config is 37J/36W/218Y...Post-mods config is (temporarily) 28J/48W/220Y (7HD/7HB)...and will become 28J/48W/90Y+/122Y (7CD/7CB).

Modifications are taking place at SIN and the entry and exit dates are based on SIN time (GMT + 8 hrs). Comfort + installation was done at ATL on all the 7HD>7CD conversions, and on 7106. The remaining 9 LRs will have the C + cabins installed at SIN.

777-200ER 8/8 7HD...8/8 7CD.
N860DA 7001 - Entered Jan 2 2019; finished Feb 3 2019. Entered ATL March 12 2019 for C + installation; finished March 15 2019.
N861DA 7002 - Entered Jan 14 2019; finished Feb 17 2019. Entered ATL March 13 2019 for C+ installation; finished March 17 2019.
N862DA 7003 - Entered Nov 29 2018; finished Jan 5 2019. Entered ATL March 6 2019 for C+ installation; finished March 10 2019.
N863DA 7004 - Entered Feb 17 2018; finished June 6 2018. Entered ATL Feb 17 2019 for C + installation; finished March 3 2019.
N864DA 7005 - Entered Sept 18 2018; finished Oct 22 2018. Entered ATL March 3 2019 for C+ installation; finished March 7 2019.
N865DA 7006 - Entered Nov 16 2018; finished Dec 18 2018. Entered ATL Feb 21 2019 for C + installation; finished Feb 27 2019.
N866DA 7007 - Entered Oct 24 2018; finished Nov 27 2018. Entered ATL Jan 28 2019 for C + installation; finished Feb 16 2019.
N867DA 7008 - Entered Feb 4 2019: finished March 11 2019. Entered ATL March 25 2019 for C + installation; finished March 30 2019.

777-200LR: 2/10 7HB...2/10 7CB.
N701DN 7101
N702DN 7102
N703DN 7103
N704DK 7104 - Entered April 4 2019; est. exit May 4 2019.
N705DN 7105 - Entered Feb 25 2018; finished March 28 2019. C+ installed at SIN.
N706DN 7106 - Entered Sept 6 2018; finished Nov 1 2018. Entered ATL for C + installation March 1 2019; finished March 14 2019.
N707DN 7107 - Entered March 23 2019; est. exit April 23 2019.
N708DN 7108
N709DN 7109
N710DN 7110

Delta confirms first route with 777 offering Delta One Suites, Premium Select, Comfort+ and Main Cabin: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...nces-marc.html
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Old Nov 27, 18, 4:32 pm
  #301  
 
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Originally Posted by RaflW View Post
A different article says that Delta will have P.S. installed "across its entire international widebody fleet by 2021". Only way I see that happening is if the beefed up A339 order means any not-then retired 763s will be relegated to only Hawaii, transcon and a few high-density domestics by 2021, because I don't believe there's any way DL is putting PS on those.
Why not?? The retrofit would be very easy, they could probably do a plane in a single day. And that exact same article says that the average PS fare is more than double the coach fare. That's just free money!
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Old Nov 27, 18, 4:35 pm
  #302  
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Originally Posted by RaflW View Post
J
A different article says that Delta will have P.S. installed "across its entire international widebody fleet by 2021". Only way I see that happening is if the beefed up A339 order means any not-then retired 763s will be relegated to only Hawaii, transcon and a few high-density domestics by 2021, because I don't believe there's any way DL is putting PS on those.
Your scenario would take significant cuts to the international fleet count. I don't see it. I expect PS on 763s and 764s: 2x2x2.
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Old Nov 27, 18, 4:36 pm
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Originally Posted by RaflW View Post
A different article says that Delta will have P.S. installed "across its entire international widebody fleet by 2021". Only way I see that happening is if the beefed up A339 order means any not-then retired 763s will be relegated to only Hawaii, transcon and a few high-density domestics by 2021, because I don't believe there's any way DL is putting PS on those.
Why wouldn't Delta install PS on 767s? Too space inefficient of an install? 7 to 6 instead of 9 to 8? Too difficult to do inventory management on the smaller cabins?
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Old Nov 27, 18, 8:55 pm
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme View Post
Your scenario would take significant cuts to the international fleet count. I don't see it. I expect PS on 763s and 764s: 2x2x2.
Ah, I hadn't really thought about the 764s (they don't come around MSP much these days). 2-2-2 P.S. would be interesting, as it's not that far from the old days domestic F up front!
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Old Nov 27, 18, 9:09 pm
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Originally Posted by kjnangre View Post
Why not?? The retrofit would be very easy, they could probably do a plane in a single day. And that exact same article says that the average PS fare is more than double the coach fare. That's just free money!
I can't imagine it'd be a day to add P.S. Re-spacing the PSUs (including the O2 masks and gaspers), installing different bulkheads between J and PS, plus probably adding a bulkhead between PS and Y+ (or Y?), as well as aisle offsets from J to PS to Y.

There are also multiple subfleets of 763s. There's the high J (and high J with crew rest access), the low J, the ex-Gulf Air with the L2/R2 doors, etc. It's a complex matrix, and DL has indicated that the reason for the 35 new A330s is for fleet replacement of 763s -- though if loads and revenue are good, I'm sure some added international capacity is in some scenario planning. The 763s are of varying ages, so I'm sure a staggered retirement is planned. Is it worth adding PS to a plane that'll be parked in 1 to 4 or 5 years? I'm not one of their bean counters, so I can't speculate.

Oh, but, like Delta is doing with flights to KEF on the 757, they could use the 76P with domestic F seats and just rebrand it P.S. That takes just minutes to provision with P.S. headsets and menu cards.

Last edited by RaflW; Nov 27, 18 at 9:19 pm
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Old Nov 27, 18, 10:53 pm
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Originally Posted by RaflW View Post
I can't imagine it'd be a day to add P.S. Re-spacing the PSUs (including the O2 masks and gaspers), installing different bulkheads between J and PS, plus probably adding a bulkhead between PS and Y+ (or Y?), as well as aisle offsets from J to PS to Y.

There are also multiple subfleets of 763s. There's the high J (and high J with crew rest access), the low J, the ex-Gulf Air with the L2/R2 doors, etc. It's a complex matrix, and DL has indicated that the reason for the 35 new A330s is for fleet replacement of 763s -- though if loads and revenue are good, I'm sure some added international capacity is in some scenario planning. The 763s are of varying ages, so I'm sure a staggered retirement is planned. Is it worth adding PS to a plane that'll be parked in 1 to 4 or 5 years? I'm not one of their bean counters, so I can't speculate.

Oh, but, like Delta is doing with flights to KEF on the 757, they could use the 76P with domestic F seats and just rebrand it P.S. That takes just minutes to provision with P.S. headsets and menu cards.

Some 767s may age out by 2021, but only a small minority. Delta has nearly 80 767s and they are the stalwarts of Delta's high yielding TATL traffic. They are using A330s as fleet replacements because they have to, not particularly because they want to. Delta will be flying at least some 767s internationally for at least another decade.

I agree I am curious about the planes on the bubble (767s that may age out around 2022-2023 so not worth doing a full refurb if the target is 2021). Perhaps they'll not be refurbed and be used exclusively for the D1 premium transcons.
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Old Nov 28, 18, 7:08 am
  #307  
 
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Originally Posted by bretthexum View Post
These 777 mods are seriously having me re-think my loyalty to Delta. As a DM, I've enjoyed the free C+ for years. I have 3 trips to Japan in the spring, and no C+ on the MSP-HND route anymore. PS is $1300 extra for my dates. Also trying to use a GUC, can't confirm D1 in advance... and definitely not wasting one on PS. Ugh. Big time devaluation.
Itís big time devaluation only for people flying Y as corporate policy. Win scenario for PS / J travellers. Many companies (that had Y travel policy) are adjusting it to PS as the product becomes more popular.

(yeah, I know itís easy talking when my company has a J travel policy)
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Old Nov 28, 18, 8:46 am
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N862DA has just arrived at SIN and will enter mods tomorrow:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N862DA
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Old Nov 28, 18, 9:32 am
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We flew in a 763Z HNL-LAX a few days ago. No reason DL couldn't use them for SLC-HNL, ATL-HNL etc, in addition to premium transcons.

A lot will depend on fuel prices. The A339s are claimed to have a 12-14% improvement in fuel burn over the 333s, and those are more fuel efficient per seat than the 767s. Reading about the operating economics of the 339s, they don't really 'pay off' until segments of about 4,000 miles, and the range is up to 7,000, so I can see DL using some 339s on routes that were 777, and moving some ex-NW 333s to replace some of the 58 active 763s.

Since this is a 777 thread, I am actually curious to think about where DL uses 777s that might switch to 339 service in the years ahead. I also noticed on the DL News Hub page that they confirmed the J/W/C+/Y format for 339s. So I would imagine DL will bring C+ back to the 777s and add to the A350s. DL has it's foibles, but they do seem to try for brand consistency (which also brings up what DL would have in mind for 767 D1 -- I guess 1/1/1 'suites'?)
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Old Nov 28, 18, 9:45 am
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Originally Posted by RaflW View Post
We flew in a 763Z HNL-LAX a few days ago. No reason DL couldn't use them for SLC-HNL, ATL-HNL etc, in addition to premium transcons.

A lot will depend on fuel prices. The A339s are claimed to have a 12-14% improvement in fuel burn over the 333s, and those are more fuel efficient per seat than the 767s. Reading about the operating economics of the 339s, they don't really 'pay off' until segments of about 4,000 miles, and the range is up to 7,000, so I can see DL using some 339s on routes that were 777, and moving some ex-NW 333s to replace some of the 58 active 763s.

Since this is a 777 thread, I am actually curious to think about where DL uses 777s that might switch to 339 service in the years ahead. I also noticed on the DL News Hub page that they confirmed the J/W/C+/Y format for 339s. So I would imagine DL will bring C+ back to the 777s and add to the A350s. DL has it's foibles, but they do seem to try for brand consistency (which also brings up what DL would have in mind for 767 D1 -- I guess 1/1/1 'suites'?)
The A339 is more fuel efficient per seat than the A333 which is more fuel efficient per seat than the 763.. but as you noted, this is primarily over longer segments. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but if I had to guess the 763s are only about 10% or so less fuel efficient per seat than an A339 at, say, a 4200 mile segment length - which is what most 767s fly (East Coast / Midwest to Western Europe). And the A339 will have about 40% more seats than a 767.. so when that nets out, you're left with a 25-30% capacity-to-cost "hole" that will cause an issue on many routes.
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Old Dec 1, 18, 12:02 am
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Originally Posted by audidudi View Post
It's definitely there for painting. Perhaps there's a delay due to Thanksgiving week?
So, AMA is not for Checks then?
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Old Dec 1, 18, 6:07 am
  #312  
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Originally Posted by RaflW View Post
I am actually curious to think about where DL uses 777s that might switch to 339 service in the years ahead.
I expect the 777s and 339s will be assigned to maximize utilization of these very small subfleets. 339s will have low trip costs/lower per seat fuel costs but the two types will have substantially the same number of seats and range. There are only eight 777-200ERs, with an average of ~19 years. Delta won't retire them early because they have more pressing replacement needs. Even after receipt of ~175 739s and A321s over the last few years the average age of the DL mainline fleet is 16.2 years (AA, 10.6; WN, 10.9; UA, 15.0). The 339 fleet will be few until 2022 or later. Once DL has enough 339s to stop worrying about utilization and focus on fuel savings, look for present 777 routes of 6,000sm or more.
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Old Dec 1, 18, 8:25 am
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme View Post
Delta won't retire them early because they have more pressing replacement needs. Even after receipt of ~175 739s and A321s over the last few years the average age of the DL mainline fleet is 16.2 years (AA, 10.6; WN, 10.9; UA, 15.0).
This is disingenuous, at best. DL has always had an old fleet and that is a core part of their business strategy. It is not something that they are trying to fix. It's intentional. There are no "pressing replacement needs". None.
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Old Dec 1, 18, 8:49 am
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Originally Posted by ChamplinAl View Post
So, AMA is not for Checks then?
I'm not sure whether AMA does mx checks, but it did ferry back to ATL yesterday:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N707DN
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Old Dec 3, 18, 11:05 am
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kjnangre Indeed. There is no reason DL won't fly the 777s for a decade or more. I'm sure they have plenty of cycles left. Someone here at FT posted a video interview of Bastian recently, and he confirmed that DL is planning to refit the 767-300s to the new D1 standard, and those a/c are generally all older than the 777s. Their plan has seemed pretty wise from a capital expenditures standpoint, and with fuel still relatively cheap, working as a broader strategy.

I was just talking recently with a friend who isn't at all an aviation person, but flies to Hawaii 2 to 6 times per year from LAX. She said she flies Hawaiian because she wants to be on brand new A321s to Maui. Old planes make her worry. I said I was totally fine in a decades old 757 from DL, I trust their maintenance. That said, from a paxex experience, I'd welcome DL deploying 321s LAX-OGG.
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