flyerCO

Normally it shows 4 columns if there is both FC and D1 options. One for FC, and one for D1. In this case only D1 is being offered.

xliioper

Look at the fare code and flight listing on the non-stops. They are clearly F, not D1 routes based on fare codes. The headings don't mean anything. They only list both on actual D1 routes (JFK-LAX/SFO, DCA-LAX, BOS-SFO). It's typical DL IT nonsensical behavior. Fare code is the ultimate decider here. Show me an example where the second to last letter is a 'D'.

https://pro.delta.com/content/agency...structure.html

flyerCO

It's a J fare class. Plus in past JFK-SEA didn't show as D1. JFK-SEA showed as FC and JFK-LAX/SFO-SEA showed as D1.

xliioper

All the JFK transcon routes are "J" class as a historical artifact of when they granted lounge access. JFK-SFO/LAX/SAN/DEN/LAS/PDX/PHX/SEA. It's not about the fare class, it's the fare code. Second to last letter MUST be a D to be a D1 route (or a J0 fare code). JFK-SEA on May 24th flight number 2853 on 75S with lie flat seats, fare class D, fare code BA03A0FQ = First Class flight. Are people not seeing the "First Class (D)" text above?

https://pro.delta.com/content/agency...structure.html

ecaarch

As we have all leaned through the years, DL throws a bunch of s**t up against the wall and then sees what sticks.

SEA-Flyer

One thing to consider is connecting passengers. Companies who have travel policies that may not allow for business class on 5 hour flights might allow it for longer itineraries, such as SEA-JFK-Europe. My employer (one of the largest in the SEA area) has such policies. I flew SEA-JFK-CDG last week on DL on a paid business class ticket, but would not have been allowed to purchase SEA-JFK stand alone in First/Business.

(Yes I'm aware I could have flown SEA-CDG nonstop, or SEA-AMS-CDG. But those flights only had full J available, so they were several thousand more expensive. Even if you are authorized to fly business class, one needs to be fiscally responsible and sometimes take a different routing if the cost savings are significant).

tphuang

All of them

that's not true. Definitely upgraded meals and service. A321T layout is frankly much better than 75S since there are only 102 seats vs 168 seats. Let's not make any excuses here for lack of upgrades on Delta.
agreed, I don't see how Delta could compete trying to price match mint.

They already have the least profitable NYC operation amongst the big players, this will make it even more unprofitable.

If they are actually doing this, it's to keep corporate contracts.

The problem is that when pricing is low, mint still makes money. It's simply printing money on JFK-LAX/SFO. JFK-SAN is making a lot of money these days.

They even make FLL-SFO/LAX despite charging sub $500 in many cases and are actually yielding higher than pre-mint.

How low would DL have to price D1 to make it unprofitable for mint?

bennos

None of these factors will drive premium TCON traffic. We had this discussion last time... TPAC routing via SEA from JFK is simply not competitive for anyone who values time (ie: the primary market for premium seats, ie: not a small number of mileage runners or airline loyalists). From JFK, you can currently fly n/s to PEK, NRT, HND, ICN, HKG, TPE, PVG, CAN, FOC, and sort of SIN (via FRA, but n/s resuming next year). Once there, if your destination is a smaller city, you only have 1 connection instead of 2 via SEA.

As a hub from the East Coast, SEA is only attractive to regional cities that one can't otherwise reach non stop. Places like EUG, PSC, and MFR. Maybe BZN, BOI, etc (which could probably be reached more directly via another hub). I don't think any of these will drive sufficient premium traffic.

Who knows, maybe JFK-SEA will work this time with more competition and more capacity...

jdrtravel

For those who are saying that SEA already "failed" because DL did not make enough money on the route, I'm curious where your information is from?

My memory is that there were major operations issues on this route, that DL could not seem to get the right equipment there and it was constantly being swapped for domestic F (like, almost every day). It could be that there has very much been a market for D1 on SEA-JFK but that DL needed to do whatever they needed to do to manage the operation successfully.

And even if it were also a profit issue, you have to take into account the vast amount of times that paid J pax showed up to find a domestic F seat, which must have taken a toll of profitability (by damaging customer perception), so perhaps DL knew that they needed to take a step back and allow time for a fresh start with customers.


The other question is: Will we start to see A350's and refurbished 777's on any of these routes? Maybe medallions would get complimentary upgrades to PE.

davetravels

Sorry to to throw this WAY off topic, but, the term "Customer Perception" really irks me, because they don't really seem to care much about it with regard to Medallions who end up sitting in Coach, and watching First Class seats either, go out empty, or filled with non-revs.

jdrtravel

True. My point, however, is that they had an issue with customer perception when trying to sell this product because it was just not available. Also, at the time, I think that medallions still got free upgrades on this D1 route. My point was not about DL's concern about customer perception in general, but rather how it relates to specific goals of theirs, in this case, selling D1 seats. DL has clearly determined that it will make more money by not allowing medallion upgrades than it will loose because of irritated customers. On our last two transcon flights we applied RCU's and missed the upgrade both ways, so something is working for them.

davetravels

I completely understand the point you're trying to make, and, my point really has nothing to do with the current topic. It was just something I felt the need to put out there at the moment, in that, sometimes, they don't seem to care much about customer perception.

SEA-Flyer

Probably not for quite some time - maybe a couple years down the road. Before that happens, they'd need to start flying a fair number intercontinental routes from these cities - then you'd maybe start to see some transcon domestic runs show up as part of the rotation. But for now, all the flights are ex-DTW, with a later ex-ATL flight planned.

If you started seeing intercontinental flights using A350 and refurbished 777s from LAX,SEA, and JFK, then you might see some domestic flights with them. But that's likely a long ways off.

jk88usa

We can complain about DL all we want but I’m sure this will poke the AA and UA bears too. If these go well I’m sure both will respond with similar service (and lack of upgrades) on similar routes. I had heard AA was definitely considering 321T service to SAN as well.

The reality is those folks who say loyalty is stupid are looking smarter by the day. Just wait till the next economic downturn, I predict a lot of these devaluation attempts to elites will be scaled back somewhat

BusTrav8yrs

there is nothing I despise more on FT than folks who look forward to economic downturns to improve their FF benefits