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-   Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles-665/)
-   -   Delta SkyClub Access Changes starting Jan 1, 2019 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1877901-delta-skyclub-access-changes-starting-jan-1-2019-a.html)

RealHJ Nov 17, 2017 5:49 pm


Originally Posted by jiburi (Post 29072902)
I may need to study the term for possible class action...

^ Please do. That is certainly worth exploring.

RumPatrol Nov 17, 2017 6:37 pm


Originally Posted by RealHJ (Post 29072942)
Total nonsense. Most times flying for many are flying other airlines, esp. given the lacking footprint of DL (on many if not most routes forcing connections vs. more direct flights on other airlines such as AS; a multi-city trip you can do over one or two days on other airlines on DL would take four days - most don't have the luxury of time to waste like that). Having DL SC access was handy then. Now with it no more, there is next to zero value in SC membership, and AmEx Plat value is also reduced, if DL SC access is now only limited when flying DL or SkyTeam. This is a major devaluation that will result in many flying DL even less, as what's the point now really? Now there is practically no value in DM; already it was reduced, and now even so.

Amex Platinum SC access is already limited to flying DL, I'm not sure why the original article suggested otherwise. Amex Platinum's benefits are unchanged.

Can't argue with the rest at all, though luckily it doesn't impact me in the slightest. For those of you who will be impacted, you have 13+ months to complain and see if they rethink it.

jiburi Nov 17, 2017 6:39 pm


Originally Posted by RealHJ (Post 29072948)
^ Please do. That is certainly worth exploring.

Complaint filed to Federal Court in Georgia.

Jiburi

PaulInTheSky Nov 17, 2017 7:04 pm


Originally Posted by RealHJ (Post 29072942)
Total nonsense. Most times flying for many are flying other airlines, esp. given the lacking footprint of DL (on many if not most routes forcing connections vs. more direct flights on other airlines such as AS; a multi-city trip you can do over one or two days on other airlines on DL would take four days - most don't have the luxury of time to waste like that). Having DL SC access was handy then. Now with it no more, there is next to zero value in SC membership, and AmEx Plat value is also reduced, if DL SC access is now only limited when flying DL or SkyTeam. This is a major devaluation that will result in many flying DL even less, as what's the point now really? Now there is practically no value in DM; already it was reduced, and now even so.


Three major devaluations in a day:

1. SkyClub Membership Access rules. AMex Card holders and SkyClub members are not allowed to access the lounge. --> Canceled the AMex cards last year. Now even less incentive to go back to AMex
2. Upgrade elimination on D1 routes. Stingy upgrade instruments provided to PMs and DMs.
3. Fuel Surcharges on DL awards out of US

However, DL fans can still figure other reasons to stick with DL. DL's message is clear - We don't want you to milk miles in our program, we will do whatever we can to devalue the miles. All the elites who feel they are special in DL will have to spend even more $$ to make themselves feel special while on the other end DL just chuckled how many fanboys would still fly the airline no matter how badly they devalue the program.

I knew how this was going with DL so I stopped flying them. I am AA/UA elite, but I don't fly them too much either. It's time to wake up and just forget about DL as a whole unless your only choice is DL.

RealHJ Nov 17, 2017 7:12 pm


Originally Posted by RumPatrol (Post 29073053)
Amex Platinum SC access is already limited to flying DL, I'm not sure why the original article suggested otherwise. Amex Platinum's benefits are unchanged.

Can't argue with the rest at all, though luckily it doesn't impact me in the slightest. For those of you who will be impacted, you have 13+ months to complain and see if they rethink it.

Thanks for the correction.

Sorry, I thought that DL SCs were included through Priority Pass (which has no airline requirement, just any same-day flight), but I was wrong to assume so. Just didn't know as never needed to use it through AmEx or PP..

gigglypug Nov 17, 2017 7:13 pm

Effective in 2019, you say??

splendid, that won’t ruin my plan to

- still pick a skyclub membership as one of my CBs for 2018
- use SC in IAH and other United hubs I’m likely to frequent
- proclaiming loudly my newfound loyalty to United whenever the dragons scan my SC number and no corresponding DL itinerary pops up

Can’t wait, this will be FUN!!

RealHJ Nov 17, 2017 7:14 pm


Originally Posted by jiburi (Post 29073054)
Complaint filed to Federal Court in Georgia.

Jiburi

Well done! Keep us appraised of how it goes. I am sure that many with SC lifetime membership and such may want to join in. (N/A to me as I just get it as a DM benefit - for now. Not that I use it much, only a few times a year. SkyTeam Elite+ is much more valuable, as is Priority Pass that is offered/provided by so many different CCs.)

bworrell Nov 17, 2017 9:17 pm

This is a bummer for me. I'm in a delta hub with just a single lounge in the whole airport (SLC). Unless I'm 100% loyal to Delta it means no lounge access for me when I fly anyone else.

Maybe we'll have more lounges when the new airport is built, but that will be a while...

StayingHomeIsBetter Nov 17, 2017 10:06 pm


Originally Posted by jamesteroh (Post 29067827)
We will still have access to partner lounges though if we are travelling on DL metal as an STE and/or J though I hope.

Don't count on it. :td::td::td:

StayingHomeIsBetter Nov 17, 2017 10:08 pm

No doubt the are delaying this until 2019 in order to give them time to build clubs in major city airports without SkyClubs where partner lounges are the only option... as in IAH and the KLM lounge.

..... Yeah, sure. :rolleyes:

flyerCO Nov 17, 2017 11:11 pm


Originally Posted by jiburi (Post 29073054)
Complaint filed to Federal Court in Georgia.

Jiburi

What is the arguement?

HeadInTheClouds Nov 18, 2017 12:01 am

What arrogance. For every airport I benefit from SC use when I’m flying UA (ie BNA), there is another where I benefit from a UC while flying DL (ie SNA). That is a big reason I maintain both paid memberships. Count me as HATING this change.:td:

synergistic Nov 18, 2017 1:17 am


Originally Posted by bworrell (Post 29073381)
This is a bummer for me. I'm in a delta hub with just a single lounge in the whole airport (SLC). Unless I'm 100% loyal to Delta it means no lounge access for me when I fly anyone else.

Maybe we'll have more lounges when the new airport is built, but that will be a while...

I feel for you. I actually allowed my SC membership to lapse this year, but SLC is where I miss it the most. I've definitely considered reupping many times, but I have virtually no loyalty to DL - I really only fly them when I'm going all the way to or from TWF, when I don't have any other options. This rule change removes all value from SC membership for me - I'm actually surprised to hear that they only want DL loyalists to pay good money for SC memberships.

xliioper Nov 18, 2017 3:48 am

I suspect this might prove a challenge for any lawsuit --

https://web.archive.org/web/20030806...ules/index.jsp
  • Crown Room facilities may be used only in conjunction with same-day ticketed air travel on Delta or Delta Connection® carriers.

xliioper Nov 18, 2017 4:17 am


Originally Posted by gigglypug (Post 29073145)
Effective in 2019, you say??

splendid, that won’t ruin my plan to

- still pick a skyclub membership as one of my CBs for 2018
- use SC in IAH and other United hubs I’m likely to frequent
- proclaiming loudly my newfound loyalty to United whenever the dragons scan my SC number and no corresponding DL itinerary pops up

Can’t wait, this will be FUN!!

There are no SC's in IAH, but I'm sure the KL and AF lounge attendants in IAH who staff the KLM Crown Lounge and Air France lounge there and have nothing to do with DL will be impressed by your juvenile attitude.

LAXRuss Nov 18, 2017 9:49 am

There once was a day when the Sky Club was a "club." If Delta changes its policy to deny access to Sky Club members who are not flying on Delta, then it is really undermining the business model of even having a membership. Why would anyone pay for a Sky Club membership, when it is cheaper to gain access through a credit card? For many years, I have enjoyed the membership, such as in situations when I flew AS under the alliance and DL would deny access to credit card holders flying their AS Code Share flight, but still allow with the DL Sky Club membership. In addition, I have enjoyed having the DL membership as a way to access the AF Salon when I was flying DL out of IAD where there is no Sky Club. Similarly, I have used a United Club membership to access their club, when I fly DL out of SNA, where there is no Sky Club for DL flights.

Again, if I cannot be guaranteed access to a DL Sky Club, regardless of carrier that I fly, then I can simply drop the annual membership fee and continue entering the clubs for free using my AMEX Cent card which I will retain in any case, and which thus already provides me complimentary access on the margin. In effect, Delta is dropping the exact access policies that encouraged me to retain a paid membership, when I already have access through a credit card.

scklumb Nov 18, 2017 10:48 am

I talked about this a few months ago...
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...er-lounge.html

scklumb Nov 18, 2017 11:06 am

This greatly affects me. Since I switched to AS a couple of years ago and am based in both SEA and MKE. I can see individual memberships or memberships under DM having the same day DL flight requirement. But executive memberships that people pay a high premium for should not have the requirement.

What about the $59 one time pass. Does that require the sameday DL flight requirement? If $59 membership allows you in but yet a ~$750 executive membership does not. :confused:

xliioper Nov 18, 2017 12:41 pm

Yes, the single visit pass already has DL (or partner) flight requirement --
  • A Single Visit Pass must be used in conjunction with same-day ticketed air travel on Delta Air Lines or its partner airlines.

synergistic Nov 18, 2017 12:53 pm


Originally Posted by scklumb (Post 29074737)
I talked about this a few months ago...
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...er-lounge.html

So you did - I even responded, expressing disbelief because I thought for sure they'd never try something like that for fear of mass refund requests. I should have considered the possibility that they'd just set the policy change far enough out to provide folks proper notice. I wonder what effect this will have on renewals of paid memberships this coming year.

yohanson Nov 18, 2017 2:04 pm


Originally Posted by estedman (Post 29071627)
Zero effect on me, I have not flown another airline in 15 years.

I have only flown NWA/DAL for over the past 9 years domestically but it will still affect my international vacations. I gained nothing by the new rules.

Bowgie Nov 18, 2017 4:11 pm


Originally Posted by UVAhoo06 (Post 29069691)
Under the new rules, can a DM with a SC membership access the SC on arrival after arriving from a domestic flight? (For example, if I flew from ATL-SFO, would I be able to use the SFO SC even though I'm not flying onward to anywhere else?)

Good question. I enter Skyclubs when I arrive at ungodly early hours when nothing in the arrival city is open yet.

The change sucks for SAN because the Delta and United clubs are right next to each other. I like to enter the Skyclub when flying United. I have to sometimes. Delta doesn't fly nonstop SAN-ORD, but United does, as an example. At least the change doesn't go into effect until 2019, which is exactly when I'll lose my Skyclub access because of Delta's new $250,000 cc spend required for maintaining Diamond status. Delta = always devaluing :td:

dinanm3atl Nov 18, 2017 7:27 pm


Originally Posted by mikesyr18 (Post 29068497)
Do airlines every improve the perks instead of taking them away or making them more expensive, ever?

Yes. When things are not great. IE last recession. They needed loyalty. They needed PAX. Now it doesn't matter.

I have used the lounge in situations where not on DL. Not that much but it's an issue.

EarlVolFan Nov 18, 2017 10:15 pm

It’s called an oligopoly...


Originally Posted by mikesyr18 (Post 29068497)
Do airlines every improve the perks instead of taking them away or making them more expensive, ever?


ijgordon Nov 18, 2017 10:49 pm


Originally Posted by sanFF (Post 29069986)
Can we get around this by purchasing a refundable one way ticket on DL to get in then cancel the flight when you leave the lounge and all is good?

Near-textbook definition of fraud, but by all means, go for it. I can certainly envision DL getting in front of this and monitoring for cancelled tickets and taking action.
Its also very likely explicitly prohibited in the COC or other terms of use (I believe it is on AA).

ETA- couldn't actually find any language in DL's COC...but here it is from AA:

  • Fraudulent, fictitious and abusive bookings: Fraudulent, fictitious and/or abusive bookings are prohibited. These types of bookings are defined as any bookings made without having been requested by or on behalf of the named passenger. Additionally, creating bookings to hold or block seats for the purpose of obtaining lower fares, AAdvantage award inventory, or upgrades that may not otherwise be available, or to gain access to airport facilities, or to circumvent any of American Airlines' fare rules or policies, is prohibited without prior authorization from American Airlines.


wlau Nov 18, 2017 11:02 pm

I am mixed on this. LAX is a clear example of overcrowding - no place to even stand to do emails :( But at the same time, Delta BETTER build up SC in a few key cities like Houston! KLM Lounge at IAH while sucks, still offer a place to get some work done and some minimal food before the flight.

Man, at this rate, I really really need to switch to United. Delta is downright painful for those us in the SF Bay area.

zrs70 Nov 24, 2017 9:55 am

Just to be clear, in some ways this is the resurrection of a very old policy. I’ll pull up a very old thread....

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...ot-flying.html

For years, the Crown Room had an official stance that a same day DL ticket was required.

uavking Nov 26, 2017 9:06 pm


Originally Posted by zrs70 (Post 29095891)
Just to be clear, in some ways this is the resurrection of a very old policy. I’ll pull up a very old thread....

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...ot-flying.html

For years, the Crown Room had an official stance that a same day DL ticket was required.

That’s true, but NW never did (as far as I can remember) for the World Clubs. I get that DL reserves the right to modify conditions of entry, but this is a real slap at World Club lifers. Require a same day boarding pass or priority card from any airline? Sure, fine. Mandate that it be a DL pass? Thanks for telling folks who gave a predecessor company a fair bit of cash to take a hike.

Don’t get me started on losing KL and AF lounge access when I’ve already lost the good overseas club network that NW had...

flyerCO Nov 26, 2017 10:09 pm


Originally Posted by wlau (Post 29076544)
I am mixed on this. LAX is a clear example of overcrowding - no place to even stand to do emails :( But at the same time, Delta BETTER build up SC in a few key cities like Houston! KLM Lounge at IAH while sucks, still offer a place to get some work done and some minimal food before the flight.

Man, at this rate, I really really need to switch to United. Delta is downright painful for those us in the SF Bay area.

One of the nicest SC is at SFO.

KenfromDE Nov 27, 2017 7:43 am


Originally Posted by uavking (Post 29103164)
That’s true, but NW never did (as far as I can remember) for the World Clubs. I get that DL reserves the right to modify conditions of entry, but this is a real slap at World Club lifers. Require a same day boarding pass or priority card from any airline? Sure, fine. Mandate that it be a DL pass? Thanks for telling folks who gave a predecessor company a fair bit of cash to take a hike.

Don’t get me started on losing KL and AF lounge access when I’ve already lost the good overseas club network that NW had...

DITTO!!!

DiverDave Nov 27, 2017 8:20 am


Originally Posted by synergistic (Post 29075125)
So you did - I even responded, expressing disbelief because I thought for sure they'd never try something like that for fear of mass refund requests. I should have considered the possibility that they'd just set the policy change far enough out to provide folks proper notice. I wonder what effect this will have on renewals of paid memberships this coming year.

Good question. My SC membership runs until 2022 and I am thinking about requesting a refund.

David

tvtd Nov 27, 2017 11:17 am

I'll add my voice to the mix. In MSP's F/G club at the moment and I've yet to have seen anything like this. It might as well be a quiet zone gate area with nicer chairs. Folks are milling about looking for a place to sit like cars searching for parking on Black Friday at the mall. Unreal.

I just purchased an annual membership a month and a half ago. Definitely getting use out of it. With that said, and still having to look closer upthread about how the unbranded Amex Plat is affected, I may just switch to the unbranded Amex.

xliioper Nov 27, 2017 11:27 am

I definitely would not take today to be a "normal" day. There have been a number of equipment up-guages yesterday and today to handle all the passengers returning home after Thanksgiving.

tvtd Nov 27, 2017 11:44 am


Originally Posted by LBJ (Post 29105457)
I definitely would not take today to be a "normal" day. There have been a number of equipment up-guages yesterday and today to handle all the passengers returning home after Thanksgiving.

That I can fully believe. Thanks LBJ. Finishing up my second run to PHX. The first was in October before the time change and I’m totally thrown off since the first trip was on Pacific and the second was on Mountain. For whatever reason it is messing with my logic skills.

DeltaFirst Nov 27, 2017 12:40 pm


Originally Posted by TTT (Post 29071460)
The Amex Plat will be a good option. In addition to the Centurion lounges, you also get Priority Pass Select which grants access to the AS lounges (capacity controlled, sometimes).

Additionally, quite a few international lounge options with PPS. They are of varying quality, but many are reasonably decent.

Priority Pass Select - includes 2 guest for free

SSF556 Nov 27, 2017 4:13 pm


Originally Posted by tvtd (Post 29105407)
I'll add my voice to the mix. In MSP's F/G club at the moment and I've yet to have seen anything like this. It might as well be a quiet zone gate area with nicer chairs. Folks are milling about looking for a place to sit like cars searching for parking on Black Friday at the mall. Unreal.

I just purchased an annual membership a month and a half ago. Definitely getting use out of it. With that said, and still having to look closer upthread about how the unbranded Amex Plat is affected, I may just switch to the unbranded Amex.

Had the same experience last week in MSP....pulled in did a lap and no seats...I used the bathroom and left. Seems to be my trend at a lot of SkyClubs lately.

RumPatrol Nov 27, 2017 5:40 pm


Originally Posted by tvtd (Post 29105407)
I'll add my voice to the mix. In MSP's F/G club at the moment and I've yet to have seen anything like this. It might as well be a quiet zone gate area with nicer chairs. Folks are milling about looking for a place to sit like cars searching for parking on Black Friday at the mall. Unreal.

I just purchased an annual membership a month and a half ago. Definitely getting use out of it. With that said, and still having to look closer upthread about how the unbranded Amex Plat is affected, I may just switch to the unbranded Amex.

I said it up thread a bit, but even prior to these changes, I still thought the Amex Platinum was the better value but now it is no contest. I don't really see any benefit at all to an annual SC membership.

Crowding really is getting bad though. I've had a few SC visits at both ATL and MSP in the last few months where I did a lap, downed a drink quickly and left. I've started trekking to ATL E even if I'm flying out of A, B and C just because it is typically the least trafficked.

jamesteroh Nov 27, 2017 6:59 pm

I don't know how this change will make a noticeable difference with the crowding. There can't be that many people in a skyclub that aren't on Delta. At the DTW skyclubs there are no non-skyteam airlines that use that terminal so it wouldn't make a difference there.

It doesn't make sense to buy an individual membership when the Delta AM EX reserve gets you in for free plus gets you MQMS or the non-branded Platinum Am Ex.

I'm surprised Delta hasn't eliminated getting in the skyclubs with the non-branded Platinum Am Ex.

RumPatrol Nov 27, 2017 7:46 pm


Originally Posted by jamesteroh (Post 29107201)
I don't know how this change will make a noticeable difference with the crowding. There can't be that many people in a skyclub that aren't on Delta. At the DTW skyclubs there are no non-skyteam airlines that use that terminal so it wouldn't make a difference there.

It doesn't make sense to buy an individual membership when the Delta AM EX reserve gets you in for free plus gets you MQMS or the non-branded Platinum Am Ex.

I'm surprised Delta hasn't eliminated getting in the skyclubs with the non-branded Platinum Am Ex.

I am certain the partnership with Amex is far more profitable for Delta than individual memberships could ever possibly be.

Plus it is a huge selling point of the non-branded Platinum Amex. It was the deciding selling point for me and probably many others like me. No way Amex or DL could change that and not face massive backlash and lost profits.

bostonbali Dec 5, 2017 11:24 am

A kick in the balls for Executive members with lifetime memberships. Agreed that a same-day BP should be required, but it shouldn't have to be DL. We've already paid for the right to access the lounge by buying the lifetime membership (for several thousands of dollars many years ago), why do we need to pay for a 2nd ticket of admission (a DL ticket?)


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