More seat swapping/poaching fun!
Oct 29, 2018, 10:33 pm
#346
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I've certainly had times when I haven't insisted that the poacher move, such as 3B versus 3C in FC on a domestic narrowbody aircraft, but when someone claims to have been confused about something like 3C versus 34E or on the 777, 5B versus 7A, I have no sympathy. Usually when my seat is being poached, the poacher wants my aisle for his/her window, or my A seat in FC on something like the CRJ-900 for their B or C seat, or my "normal" FC seat for their FC bulkhead, etc. I find it very suspicious that a poacher has never taken my inferior seat for their superior set, but rather it's my better seat being poached when I'm offered their worse seat in return. Just IME....
Oct 30, 2018, 5:24 am
#347
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I've certainly had times when I haven't insisted that the poacher move, such as 3B versus 3C in FC on a domestic narrowbody aircraft, but when someone claims to have been confused about something like 3C versus 34E or on the 777, 5B versus 7A, I have no sympathy. Usually when my seat is being poached, the poacher wants my aisle for his/her window, or my A seat in FC on something like the CRJ-900 for their B or C seat, or my "normal" FC seat for their FC bulkhead, etc. I find it very suspicious that a poacher has never taken my inferior seat for their superior set, but rather it's my better seat being poached when I'm offered their worse seat in return. Just IME....
Oct 30, 2018, 6:03 am
#348
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Oct 30, 2018, 6:04 am
#349
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I've certainly had times when I haven't insisted that the poacher move, such as 3B versus 3C in FC on a domestic narrowbody aircraft, but when someone claims to have been confused about something like 3C versus 34E or on the 777, 5B versus 7A, I have no sympathy. Usually when my seat is being poached, the poacher wants my aisle for his/her window, or my A seat in FC on something like the CRJ-900 for their B or C seat, or my "normal" FC seat for their FC bulkhead, etc. I find it very suspicious that a poacher has never taken my inferior seat for their superior set, but rather it's my better seat being poached when I'm offered their worse seat in return. Just IME....
Oct 30, 2018, 9:48 am
#350
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And right back at ya - no one will know who you and that you are someone who will get in a tizzy about being asked to swap seats so chances are, people will continue to ask you about seat swaps, which if I find myself in a position where I feel myself wanting or needing me to ask for a seat swap, may mean asking you.
It is not a false equivalence. All we're arguing about is the level of imposition at this point, for which you seem to think you should be the arbitrator of what is and isn't an appropriate level for imposing on someone else.
Of course, most people recognize being asked to swap seats is also a normal part of traveling - it pretty much always has been and will almost certainly continue to be. People get split up for various reasons. IROPS, late bookings, etc. It apparently seems crazy to you, but many people want to sit together on a plane when they travel, much like they do when they do other things. This is also apparently crazy to you, but not everyone values the same things or prioritizes the same things when they travel or when they select seats. Such people would find it odd or strange that you (and many of us) put the level of care into a decision on what seat to sit in while flying in the metal tube. Many people don't understand why we have the interest and stake in airline loyalty to keep the ability to select certain seats. They view them as "seats on the plane" where as we view it about being able to make something that can be miserable a little more bearable for a few hours.. That doesn't make those prioritizations wrong on your part but it does mean that everyone values things differently and in their own world, they are trying to make their own time on the plane more bearable by sitting next to their companions and there are plenty of people who switch seats on a plane every day without viewing it as rude to be asked or as such a level of imposition on their lives as you do, which should be enough to you to indicate your stance is merely an opinion, not a fact.
You position yourself as that way through the attitude of your own posts - when you say "I will keep saying no on principle to all swap requests that don't involve an upgrade", well, you've positioned yourself as someone who has no empathy or sympathy for their fellow travelers who are just trying to make the best of their own situation, which may be crappy if they've been split up from young kids or what not. You've well earned the attitude you're viewed with from those who have a little bit more empathy, as evidenced by your post below:
Your lack of empathy (and why others view you the way you do) is visible here. You don't know whether or not people are just going to be apart for a few hours and then reunited on the other side. Many people have expressed their own stories of when this isn't the case. For part of the time Mrs. ATOBTTR and I were dating, we lived in separate parts of the country. We often only got to see each other for a few days a month, if we were lucky. While usually I went to visit her or she came to visit me, occasionally we would take a trip together. This sometimes meant we would meet up at a hub and then continue to our destination on the same flight and then do the reverse on the way back (going to our separate destinations at the hub). And yes, on occasion we had IROPS or aircraft swaps that split us up at times. But what you assume that we would just be apart a few hours in this case, may have been our last hours together for quite some time. There are plenty of other reasonable scenarios too - maybe one flyer is a nervous flyer and being near a companion helps ease that nervousness. That you have no empathy for anyone in such situations, or that you cannot understand how these situations even exist, explains exactly why some on here view you with the attitude they do and why it's not obtuse at all to conclude that you have no empathy for anyone else. Because per your own admission, you don't.
And yet here you are, trying to impose on strangers your own view of "don't impose on others" because of what you selfishly want (to not even be asked about a seat swapped). Surely you have to see and understand the irony of your own position, right?
That is your opinion. This is not a fact, unless you think once again you are the sole arbitrator of what is and is not rude.. But even if you are just asking someone the time, you are imposing on them and they may find it rude. If they are deep in conversation or even just deep in thought and you can't tell this, and you interupt them to ask the time, you have imposed on them and interupted them for your own "problem" of not having the time. Again, all you're arguing about is the level of the imposition at this point, not whether or not you're actually imposing on someone.
I do not believe it is rude for someone to make a seat swap request. It is also not rude of you to deny a request (unless you're denying it simply for the sake of denying it which per your own admission in another post that you do deny swap requests on principle alone, makes you rude - of course unless you come out and say that in the moment the other person will never know specifically). But what you find rude is not seen as rude by many others, as evidenced by the fact that many other passengers engage in seat swaps every day. It is (IMO) rude for people to try to pushback after receiving a "no" (as has happened to me after I've even denied seat swap requests) but someone asking is not in and of itself, rude, in the opinions of many other folks.
It may be an "imposition", but the use of "rude" in front of it is your own OPINION. So you can keep reminding "sanctimonious FTers" of your own OPINION, but no matter how many times you post your own OPINION, that will not magically turn it into a "fact".
It is not a false equivalence. All we're arguing about is the level of imposition at this point, for which you seem to think you should be the arbitrator of what is and isn't an appropriate level for imposing on someone else.
Of course, most people recognize being asked to swap seats is also a normal part of traveling - it pretty much always has been and will almost certainly continue to be. People get split up for various reasons. IROPS, late bookings, etc. It apparently seems crazy to you, but many people want to sit together on a plane when they travel, much like they do when they do other things. This is also apparently crazy to you, but not everyone values the same things or prioritizes the same things when they travel or when they select seats. Such people would find it odd or strange that you (and many of us) put the level of care into a decision on what seat to sit in while flying in the metal tube. Many people don't understand why we have the interest and stake in airline loyalty to keep the ability to select certain seats. They view them as "seats on the plane" where as we view it about being able to make something that can be miserable a little more bearable for a few hours.. That doesn't make those prioritizations wrong on your part but it does mean that everyone values things differently and in their own world, they are trying to make their own time on the plane more bearable by sitting next to their companions and there are plenty of people who switch seats on a plane every day without viewing it as rude to be asked or as such a level of imposition on their lives as you do, which should be enough to you to indicate your stance is merely an opinion, not a fact.
You position yourself as that way through the attitude of your own posts - when you say "I will keep saying no on principle to all swap requests that don't involve an upgrade", well, you've positioned yourself as someone who has no empathy or sympathy for their fellow travelers who are just trying to make the best of their own situation, which may be crappy if they've been split up from young kids or what not. You've well earned the attitude you're viewed with from those who have a little bit more empathy, as evidenced by your post below:
Your lack of empathy (and why others view you the way you do) is visible here. You don't know whether or not people are just going to be apart for a few hours and then reunited on the other side. Many people have expressed their own stories of when this isn't the case. For part of the time Mrs. ATOBTTR and I were dating, we lived in separate parts of the country. We often only got to see each other for a few days a month, if we were lucky. While usually I went to visit her or she came to visit me, occasionally we would take a trip together. This sometimes meant we would meet up at a hub and then continue to our destination on the same flight and then do the reverse on the way back (going to our separate destinations at the hub). And yes, on occasion we had IROPS or aircraft swaps that split us up at times. But what you assume that we would just be apart a few hours in this case, may have been our last hours together for quite some time. There are plenty of other reasonable scenarios too - maybe one flyer is a nervous flyer and being near a companion helps ease that nervousness. That you have no empathy for anyone in such situations, or that you cannot understand how these situations even exist, explains exactly why some on here view you with the attitude they do and why it's not obtuse at all to conclude that you have no empathy for anyone else. Because per your own admission, you don't.
And yet here you are, trying to impose on strangers your own view of "don't impose on others" because of what you selfishly want (to not even be asked about a seat swapped). Surely you have to see and understand the irony of your own position, right?
That is your opinion. This is not a fact, unless you think once again you are the sole arbitrator of what is and is not rude.. But even if you are just asking someone the time, you are imposing on them and they may find it rude. If they are deep in conversation or even just deep in thought and you can't tell this, and you interupt them to ask the time, you have imposed on them and interupted them for your own "problem" of not having the time. Again, all you're arguing about is the level of the imposition at this point, not whether or not you're actually imposing on someone.
I do not believe it is rude for someone to make a seat swap request. It is also not rude of you to deny a request (unless you're denying it simply for the sake of denying it which per your own admission in another post that you do deny swap requests on principle alone, makes you rude - of course unless you come out and say that in the moment the other person will never know specifically). But what you find rude is not seen as rude by many others, as evidenced by the fact that many other passengers engage in seat swaps every day. It is (IMO) rude for people to try to pushback after receiving a "no" (as has happened to me after I've even denied seat swap requests) but someone asking is not in and of itself, rude, in the opinions of many other folks.
It may be an "imposition", but the use of "rude" in front of it is your own OPINION. So you can keep reminding "sanctimonious FTers" of your own OPINION, but no matter how many times you post your own OPINION, that will not magically turn it into a "fact".
I know people get split up for all sorts of reasons. It's not my problem to solve. I know some people REALLY want to sit together as a result of whatever back story that they have about spending time together. Again. It's not my problem to solve. I don't know you, and I don't care if you rarely get to see your spouse. Not my circus, not my monkey, and it doesn't give you right to panhandle someone else's seat from them. I am not playing unite-the-couple at the expense of my own comfort or conveinence, and how dare anyone think their story is more important than anyone else's?
You may think I lack empathy, but I think you suffer narcissism because you think your lack of seeing your significant other enought justifies bothering another passenger.
Yes, it is my opinion, and not all opinions are equal. Mine is better. I have made good arguments for my position..it seems your only response is ad-hominem attacks because you lack good counter arguments.
Oct 30, 2018, 10:51 am
#351
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Literally not one single person in this thread has even suggested that it's "your problem to solve."
Oct 30, 2018, 10:52 am
#352
Join Date: Jun 2012
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I can only assume Proudelitist is just having fun stirring up the board. "[My opinion] is better" is pure posting gold, but probably not in the manner intended if it was a serious statement. A close second is the argument that it is a horrible imposition to take mere seconds of someone's time to ask to trade seats on an aircraft, but it is not an undue imposition to take the same amount of time in the same place and manner to ask the time of day .
Oct 30, 2018, 11:22 am
#353
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Dialog running through my mind:
Random passenger: Excuse me, do you know what time it is?
Proudeletist: Yes, it's X:XX.
Random passenger: Thank you. You're so kind and empathetic. Would you mind changing seats with my disabled grandmother? It's OK if you don't want to.
Proudeletist: (@#&#*(@&$
Proudeletist: Yes, it's X:XX.
Random passenger: Thank you. You're so kind and empathetic. Would you mind changing seats with my disabled grandmother? It's OK if you don't want to.
Proudeletist: (@#&#*(@&$
Oct 30, 2018, 2:05 pm
#355
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I prefer aisle, and will sometimes switch like for like, or if someone has a legitimate medical issue - ex. I once switched aisle for aisle in first because the person in the aisle seat opposite me had a full leg cast and the switch made sense for them.
Stop there. The BP holder is free to refuse the request, period, full stop, the end.
I also thought that.
Of course, when we're traveling together, I book us seats together, so it's never an issue.
O/H
Oct 30, 2018, 2:43 pm
#356
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,394
Someone's asking to trade seats, not a kidney. None of this is nearly as big a deal as anyone is making it out to be either direction.
Oct 30, 2018, 8:30 pm
#357
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I was on a flight this weekend where a couple maintained they booked seats together (let's say 35 D and E), but their BPs said 34E and 35E. They loudly complained about this the entire way down the aisle, and then to anyone within vicinity. They asked a FA for help, and the FA made an announcement over the speaker. No one took the bait. After boarding was complete, they complained again. The FA got on the speaker again. No takers. The purser went back to the couple and said "do you want to take this flight or not" and they got off the plane to talk to the GA. I presume the GA must have told them that this flight was their only option for a confirmed seat to get them there on time, as they were back on the plane and in 34E and 35E very quickly.
Oct 30, 2018, 11:35 pm
#358
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I was on a flight this weekend where a couple maintained they booked seats together (let's say 35 D and E), but their BPs said 34E and 35E. They loudly complained about this the entire way down the aisle, and then to anyone within vicinity. They asked a FA for help, and the FA made an announcement over the speaker. No one took the bait. After boarding was complete, they complained again. The FA got on the speaker again. No takers. The purser went back to the couple and said "do you want to take this flight or not" and they got off the plane to talk to the GA. I presume the GA must have told them that this flight was their only option for a confirmed seat to get them there on time, as they were back on the plane and in 34E and 35E very quickly.
"You booked basic economy which does not come with any seat selection, and has no changes or refunds allowed. You can get on board or forfeit the entire ticket".
But that probably doesn't give the GA enough credit.
Oct 31, 2018, 9:11 am
#359
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It's possible that by booking the two tickets together/at the same time, they assumed they also booked seats together or would be assigned seats together. They may not have even assumed they booked specific seats together, it's not clear from gitismatt's post, he just posits it could have been 35D/E.
Of course it's also possible they were on main cabin fares, and did select seats together, and were still split up because, hey, seat assignments are never guaranteed and stuff happens. I'd be inclined to want to throw a bit of a fit in that instance
, but certainly understand that nobody's going to want to move from a window/aisle into one of the middles.
Of course it's also possible they were on main cabin fares, and did select seats together, and were still split up because, hey, seat assignments are never guaranteed and stuff happens. I'd be inclined to want to throw a bit of a fit in that instance
, but certainly understand that nobody's going to want to move from a window/aisle into one of the middles.
Oct 31, 2018, 10:43 am
#360
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Well it happened again on my next flight. Had the aisle in 5B, and a lady had the aisle in 5C. Man and wife walk up, and they are split in 5A and 5D. Man asks me to swap to 5D. I said I'll swap, but it needs to be for another aisle. He stands there staring at the lady in 5C who was on a phone call while everyone behind him is waiting to board the plane. She finally tells the person on the phone that she has to go to deal with someone asking to switch seats. So he explains to her what they want to do, and she moves over by me in 5A. Man says "Delta messed up and separated our seats".