"4 drinks is all we are allowed to serve on this flight"
Nov 7, 2017, 11:20 am
#61
Join Date: Dec 2009
Programs: Hilton Diamond Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,180
I've been asked if I was driving on a few occasions. When I said no I was happily brought a double.i have absolutely no issue with them asking.
The only time ive had a real issue was in J out of CDG. I had 3 over the course of my meal (which ended about 2 hours into the flight) and was denied after asking for one later on. Mind you it takes way more than that to do any serious damage to me. The service on that flight wasn't very good otherwise.
The only time ive had a real issue was in J out of CDG. I had 3 over the course of my meal (which ended about 2 hours into the flight) and was denied after asking for one later on. Mind you it takes way more than that to do any serious damage to me. The service on that flight wasn't very good otherwise.
Nov 7, 2017, 1:20 pm
#62
Join Date: Jan 2010
Programs: DL PM; AA Gold; Hyatt Globalist; HH D, Marriott Plat
Posts: 113
Last night my "friend" was flying home after visiting me over the weekend in C+ on DL4700 MSP-MSO. She said a gentleman right in front of her in F rang the FA call button and asked for another drink well into the flight. That's when the FA said, "Sir, I'm sorry but four drinks is all we are allowed to serve on this flight". I guess she did find him another but is this just your typically FA lie or is there a DL mandated maximum drink limit per flight? It has seemed to me that there has been a quota on occasion over the past couple of years and far less FA activity in F in general. On the rare occasion lately, it seems like the old days where the FA can't get you enough to drink but I can only recall that happening twice in the past couple of years.
Nov 7, 2017, 1:51 pm
#63
Join Date: Jul 2012
Programs: QFF AAdvantage
Posts: 5
Interesting thread, with much making point about Rental car usage, however given one of the first posts (Down3Green) highlights that the FAA rules that states
"appears to be intoxicated" as a requirement not to serve. Then all the angst about the FA saying a 4 drink rule, centers around why she said this.
Assumptions are made its do do with car rental because another poster said this may have been the case.
Going back to the point in the FAA regulation
"appears" is the critical wording.
Working in the hospitality industry, admittedly in another country (Australia) we have similar wording within the laws for servicing alcohol.
The operative word "appears" is also there.
In liquor serving, training which is mandatory, the discussion by all being trained, is how to know.
You cant breath test customers, and if you could, getting a "truly" drunk person to do this is virually impossible without a fight - a few "happy" drunks might, but you cant tell. So thats to be avoided in a liquor establishment, and even more so on a plane.
You are trained to look for indications (read appears), some being argumentative, dilated pupils, being unsteady etc
Going back to the law, all it says is "appears", so you are obligated to refuse service when you see the signs which give that appearance. (Yes closing your eyes as you serve etc might work LOL - but back to the law)
Given you if, a FA, determine some signs are showing, then legally you must act.
In training we are then given the "nice" ways to cut someone off, the FA knows thru training that a drunk may be "argumentative" in a confined space like a plane, so invoking a "rule" that they have no control over, might be the more diplomatic way. We given things like giving alternatives, water, soda, coffee etc.
However on the ground the laws are even more strict, we have to ask the patron to leave the premises. Not possible on a plane, so diplomacy is even more critical.
Plus in a confined space, having a drunk sitting next to you, who has been upset doesnt make for a pleasant flight.
On a side note, on the ground we dont have to justify our stand. The law is clear, when we see the signs - yes only the signs - , we are forced to act. In my locality its $5K fine for me and my establishment each, and the establishment can pay my fine.
So yes while it may seem "unfair" and a "lie" just think that if a passenger is drunk, dealing with so called truths while it might make sense to someone in charge of their facilities, it can go pear shaped with someone enbolded by alcohol.
"appears to be intoxicated" as a requirement not to serve. Then all the angst about the FA saying a 4 drink rule, centers around why she said this.
Assumptions are made its do do with car rental because another poster said this may have been the case.
Going back to the point in the FAA regulation
"appears" is the critical wording.
Working in the hospitality industry, admittedly in another country (Australia) we have similar wording within the laws for servicing alcohol.
The operative word "appears" is also there.
In liquor serving, training which is mandatory, the discussion by all being trained, is how to know.
You cant breath test customers, and if you could, getting a "truly" drunk person to do this is virually impossible without a fight - a few "happy" drunks might, but you cant tell. So thats to be avoided in a liquor establishment, and even more so on a plane.
You are trained to look for indications (read appears), some being argumentative, dilated pupils, being unsteady etc
Going back to the law, all it says is "appears", so you are obligated to refuse service when you see the signs which give that appearance. (Yes closing your eyes as you serve etc might work LOL - but back to the law)
Given you if, a FA, determine some signs are showing, then legally you must act.
In training we are then given the "nice" ways to cut someone off, the FA knows thru training that a drunk may be "argumentative" in a confined space like a plane, so invoking a "rule" that they have no control over, might be the more diplomatic way. We given things like giving alternatives, water, soda, coffee etc.
However on the ground the laws are even more strict, we have to ask the patron to leave the premises. Not possible on a plane, so diplomacy is even more critical.
Plus in a confined space, having a drunk sitting next to you, who has been upset doesnt make for a pleasant flight.
On a side note, on the ground we dont have to justify our stand. The law is clear, when we see the signs - yes only the signs - , we are forced to act. In my locality its $5K fine for me and my establishment each, and the establishment can pay my fine.
So yes while it may seem "unfair" and a "lie" just think that if a passenger is drunk, dealing with so called truths while it might make sense to someone in charge of their facilities, it can go pear shaped with someone enbolded by alcohol.
Nov 7, 2017, 2:55 pm
#64
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Programs: AA, HH, UA, Amtrak
Posts: 270
I started typing something similar (on the bolded points) but your write up covers this very well, so I am going to go with a +1.
Interesting thread, with much making point about Rental car usage, however given one of the first posts (Down3Green) highlights that the FAA rules that states
"appears to be intoxicated" as a requirement not to serve. Then all the angst about the FA saying a 4 drink rule, centers around why she said this.
Assumptions are made its do do with car rental because another poster said this may have been the case.
Going back to the point in the FAA regulation
"appears" is the critical wording...
However on the ground the laws are even more strict, we have to ask the patron to leave the premises. Not possible on a plane, so diplomacy is even more critical.
"appears to be intoxicated" as a requirement not to serve. Then all the angst about the FA saying a 4 drink rule, centers around why she said this.
Assumptions are made its do do with car rental because another poster said this may have been the case.
Going back to the point in the FAA regulation
"appears" is the critical wording...
However on the ground the laws are even more strict, we have to ask the patron to leave the premises. Not possible on a plane, so diplomacy is even more critical.
Nov 7, 2017, 6:17 pm
#66
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC, ROC, HNL, PEN, BKK, KUL, SIN (check out http://my.flightmemory.com/kkua)
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Posts: 682
I just got into this thread. My first thought was that the plane probably had only half sized beverage carts, of which usually 2 will be equipped with a drawer containing spirits. So, if I'm correct, the uninventoried cart usually has 4 of everything except Bailey's (x2), Tequila (as much as the margarita mix bottles) and Canadian Crown (x2).
Perhaps the flight attendant was correct with the number 4, but failed to convey a positive spin to the passenger???
Perhaps the flight attendant was correct with the number 4, but failed to convey a positive spin to the passenger???
Nov 7, 2017, 8:21 pm
#67
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Twin Cities
Programs: Delta DM MM, IHG Plat, Hilton DM, Marriott SE, Emerald EE, Oakdale Gun Club, NRA & GOA Life Member
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I've been on that flight ~1 bazillion times, give or take . For clarification flight time is ~2:40 going West (~2:00 even going east). It is a Skywest CRJ 900 in Oct-April (mainline DL in summer). Personally, I don't drink if I'm driving from airport. In my opinion, 4 drinks would be doable on this flight, but 5-6 would be pretty aggressive. The guy was no doubt hammered and the Skywest FA handled it however she did, regional carrier FA's do see to have their quirks (GoJet/UAL FA making me shut down a computer 35 mins before landing on initial approach), but sounds like the guy was hammered. Missoula is a small town, give us some physical description/characteristics and we might be able pinpoint the exact individual and extrapolate if he was in fact hammered- haha!
Nov 7, 2017, 8:39 pm
#68
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Anywhere but home
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Posts: 4,551
Regardless of whether the FA told a harmless fib, ultimately I'm glad that she was acting in the best interests of everyone (the drinker, those nearby, and those who might encounter the drinker later, one way or the other).
A few nights ago in the Skyclub in Chicago, an older fellow was drinking copiously and talking progressively louder on this cell phone. One couldn't help but overhear him, initially telling his friend that his flight was cancelled so he was going to stay and drink in the lounge until they closed. Later, as he kept drinking, he started making sexually explicit comments about his girlfriend. Several people near him left, and one of them went and told a Skyclub agent. The agent then came to him, told him that he wasn't going to drink anymore, and offered him a coffee. As the man tried to finish his drink, the agent took the drink from him, telling him he wasn't going to have any more alcohol in the lounge. I'm very pleased the agent handled things well and cut off this obnoxiously drunk person. ^
A few nights ago in the Skyclub in Chicago, an older fellow was drinking copiously and talking progressively louder on this cell phone. One couldn't help but overhear him, initially telling his friend that his flight was cancelled so he was going to stay and drink in the lounge until they closed. Later, as he kept drinking, he started making sexually explicit comments about his girlfriend. Several people near him left, and one of them went and told a Skyclub agent. The agent then came to him, told him that he wasn't going to drink anymore, and offered him a coffee. As the man tried to finish his drink, the agent took the drink from him, telling him he wasn't going to have any more alcohol in the lounge. I'm very pleased the agent handled things well and cut off this obnoxiously drunk person. ^
Nov 8, 2017, 10:48 am
#69
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Plat, Million Miler, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 21
I was on Delta in F, ATL-LAX. After I requested drink #2 (no drinks prior) she said she wasn't allowed to serve more than one drink per flight. So I waited until another FA came by and she served me immediately. The first FA had some kind of issue I guess.
Nov 8, 2017, 6:46 pm
#70
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Columbia, SC
Programs: UAL 1KMM,Hilton Diamond
Posts: 758
She did the right thing
if she had said “sir, I believe you’ve had enough to drink”, half of you would have gobe crazy.
i managed a club in California and we were legally liable for any accident or damage caused by a customer if they were intoxicated leaving the bar. State law.
Bars have lost millions in suits.
Sounds like she was being polite. Every week we read something on here about a drunk passenger doing something stupid. We can’t have it both ways.
i managed a club in California and we were legally liable for any accident or damage caused by a customer if they were intoxicated leaving the bar. State law.
Bars have lost millions in suits.
Sounds like she was being polite. Every week we read something on here about a drunk passenger doing something stupid. We can’t have it both ways.
Nov 8, 2017, 11:06 pm
#71
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,079
I was on Delta in F, ATL-LAX. After I requested drink #2 (no drinks prior) she said she wasn't allowed to serve more than one drink per flight. So I waited until another FA came by and she served me immediately. The first FA had some kind of issue I guess.
Last edited by flyerslc; Nov 9, 2017 at 8:11 am
Nov 9, 2017, 8:45 am
#72
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,806
I remember years ago, US Air had a passenger get off the plane who was drunk. That passenger then drove and killed someone. I want to say New Mexico, but I'm not sure. I believe, at the time, US Air was not allowed to serve alcohol on any route by US Air landing in New Mexico. Also, when flying through New Mexico airspace, had to stop serving liquor.
I remember when these drinking laws started. We couldn't board someone who was drunk. While it is still a law, the airlines look the other way now.
It's a double edged sword now. Yes, FAs are to cut off pax who are getting drunk, because of the laws. But if the pax later complains, the FA gets into trouble and the pax gets free drink coupons. Unless the FA can get the Captain involved to agree to cut a pax off. Or if a drunk pax causes a problem, the company will demand to know why the pax was served when they ought not have been.
Bottom line, FAs are not to serve drunk pax and no one is supposed to get off the plane drunk.
NWA FA
Fly Safe!
I remember when these drinking laws started. We couldn't board someone who was drunk. While it is still a law, the airlines look the other way now.
It's a double edged sword now. Yes, FAs are to cut off pax who are getting drunk, because of the laws. But if the pax later complains, the FA gets into trouble and the pax gets free drink coupons. Unless the FA can get the Captain involved to agree to cut a pax off. Or if a drunk pax causes a problem, the company will demand to know why the pax was served when they ought not have been.
Bottom line, FAs are not to serve drunk pax and no one is supposed to get off the plane drunk.
NWA FA
Fly Safe!
Nov 9, 2017, 9:29 am
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toledo, OH
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One time I was on a DTW/MDW and I heard the FA cut off in the aisle seat across from me and she should have. I saw the guy drinking in the Skyclub before the flight (not sure how much he drank there) and when we boarded he ordered a double neat (I think he was drinking gin) for a predeparture drink and then asked for another double before we took off and she served him so he had the four minis plus whatever he had in the skyclub before we took off. Once we were in the air he ordered another double and she told him they only had one mini of whatever it was he was drinking left and he asked for a double of something else. He downed that and when the FA was coming through again asked for another double and she asked if he driving and he said he had a ride picking him up and she told him he already had six drinks in less than an hour and would serve him a single and that was it. I was on a flight one time that was dtw/las and my seatmate was drinking quite a bit and when the FA gave him another drink she told him that would be it for another hour.
Only issue I had was a DTW/LHR crew. There was a MX problem and they ended up overnighting us and had to bring in a new aircraft from ATL and had to use different FA"s who didn't normally do international. Service was awful and I wasn't that happy with losing a whole day in London and having awful service as it was and wanted to stay awake for the flight since we would be landing at 11 pm LHR time. I had a coffee and bailey's with dessert (they didn't cater the dessert wines) When she came to take my coffee cup I asked for a double bailey's on the rocks and she got snarky and said I just had some Baileys and had two glasses of wine (this would have been over a 90 minute period and I only drank two sips of the first glass of wine because she served me the wrong wine and I asked for the other glass as a replacement) and their policy prohibit serving doubles and she brought me back a single. A double of Bailey's has less alcohol than a single of most of their other spirits.
Only issue I had was a DTW/LHR crew. There was a MX problem and they ended up overnighting us and had to bring in a new aircraft from ATL and had to use different FA"s who didn't normally do international. Service was awful and I wasn't that happy with losing a whole day in London and having awful service as it was and wanted to stay awake for the flight since we would be landing at 11 pm LHR time. I had a coffee and bailey's with dessert (they didn't cater the dessert wines) When she came to take my coffee cup I asked for a double bailey's on the rocks and she got snarky and said I just had some Baileys and had two glasses of wine (this would have been over a 90 minute period and I only drank two sips of the first glass of wine because she served me the wrong wine and I asked for the other glass as a replacement) and their policy prohibit serving doubles and she brought me back a single. A double of Bailey's has less alcohol than a single of most of their other spirits.
Nov 10, 2017, 1:30 pm
#74
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Kingdom of the Sun
Programs: DL GM/MM
Posts: 3,708
I remember years ago, US Air had a passenger get off the plane who was drunk. That passenger then drove and killed someone. I want to say New Mexico, but I'm not sure. I believe, at the time, US Air was not allowed to serve alcohol on any route by US Air landing in New Mexico. Also, when flying through New Mexico airspace, had to stop serving liquor.