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AF Changed my Ticket to Joon... MQM Earning

AF Changed my Ticket to Joon... MQM Earning

Old Oct 26, 17, 4:04 pm
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AF Changed my Ticket to Joon... MQM Earning

My December itinerary on AF from CDG-BCN was just changed to a Joon itinerary (their new low cost carrier, launching in Dec). I'm concerned this will impact my MQM earnings (this flight is actually my last one of the year and will get me the last few miles I need for DM).

My original carrier was AF and first three digits of my ticket number are Air France stock (057) but I don't know if maybe all their Joon tickets are on AF stock. Originally booked through Expedia.

Any ideas?
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Old Oct 26, 17, 4:43 pm
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I'm in the process of booking a flight from CDG to TXL, and, I also noticed this. I fly this route semi-frequently, and the flight numbers are EXACTLY THE SAME as they have always been for YEARS! I was wondering the same thing.

The first pic is a screenshot from AirFrance.com.

All are A320 aircraft. On the ExpertFlyer screen, when you click on "JN", it displays "Livingston Air".

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Last edited by davetravels; Oct 26, 17 at 4:56 pm
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Old Oct 26, 17, 5:56 pm
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Originally Posted by Incoherent1 View Post
My December itinerary on AF from CDG-BCN was just changed to a Joon itinerary (their new low cost carrier, launching in Dec). I'm concerned this will impact my MQM earnings (this flight is actually my last one of the year and will get me the last few miles I need for DM).

My original carrier was AF and first three digits of my ticket number are Air France stock (057) but I don't know if maybe all their Joon tickets are on AF stock. Originally booked through Expedia.

Any ideas?
Picking a date in late December (the 29th, if it matters) I see that all AF-coded CDG-BCN is Joon-operated. Joon isn't one of the AF-coded partner carriers excluded from earning but it isn't explicitly opted-in, either.

https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...ir-france.html
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Old Oct 26, 17, 6:18 pm
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme View Post
Picking a date in late December (the 29th, if it matters) I see that all AF-coded CDG-BCN is Joon-operated. Joon isn't one of the AF-coded partner carriers excluded from earning but it isn't explicitly opted-in, either.
Yeah, based on the phrasing, it sounds like it all hinges on whether Joon is considered a SkyTeam airline or not. I'm wondering if it's like Silk (owned by SQ, but not part of *A) or is considered a branch of AF (and therefore SkyTeam) or a different airline that's also SkyTeam.

I've sent a Twitter DM to the AF USA account. Hopefully they'll cast some light (although I'm worried I'll get a generic "Earning on DL's program is subject to their T&C so you need to contact them" response).

Will report back what I find, but if anyone has other guidance, that'd be great.
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Old Oct 26, 17, 7:12 pm
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I seriously doubt that Joon will be considered a SkyTeam member. This is similar to KLM's low-cost subsidiary Transavia which does not earn MQM unless it is a Delta codeshare.

Considering that your operating carrier changed, you should get a free rebooking. Maybe take advantage of that if you want other changes to your itinerary. Although having booked through Expedia makes that process much harder, one of the many reasons to stay well away from OTAs.

Personally I'd be concerned about flying Joon in the first place. Beyond all the normal LCC misery, you'll have to suffer perhaps the most patronizing airline concept that ever actually made it to fruition after escaping from the bowls of some vacuously millennial-obsessed consulting firm.
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Old Oct 26, 17, 7:37 pm
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Originally Posted by C W View Post
Welcome to FlyerTalk

I seriously doubt that Joon will be considered a SkyTeam member. This is similar to KLM's low-cost subsidiary Transavia which does not earn MQM unless it is a Delta codeshare.
I'm thinking the same, but here's the crazy thing, (also highlighted earlier by @davetravels ): in many cases, Air France has completely removed all AF-metal flights on major intra-Europe routes (as one example: Dec 26, CDG-BCN has zero flights operated by AF -- all are operated by Joon). That seems crazy to me, and would have massive implications for their network if Joon is not considered SkyTeam.

Although it also seems crazy for Air France to to cease operations on major intra-Europe routes and shift their entire product line to an ill-conceived and poorly named airline whose website is practically non-existent, so who knows?

One other thing: when I put in my DL credentials, it did confirm me as SkyTeam E+ (and confirmed my extra bag allowance and ability to select a seat), so here's hoping that's some suggestion that it'll be credited as a SkyTeam flight, but who knows (and this could easily be a bug, because I entered those credentials when it was still marketed as an AF flight).

Originally Posted by C W View Post
Considering that your operating carrier changed, you should get a free rebooking. Maybe take advantage of that if you want other changes to your itinerary. Although having booked through Expedia makes that process much harder, one of the many reasons to stay well away from OTAs.
Yeah, I may seek a rebooking. I normally avoid Expedia too, but I must've booked during the change over because I couldn't find any flights CDG-BCN on AirFrance.com the day I booked. I found it bizarre that Expedia had flights that the carrier's own website didn't. Now I know why.

Originally Posted by C W View Post
Beyond all the normal LCC misery, you'll have to suffer perhaps the most patronizing airline concept that ever actually made it to fruition after escaping from the bowls of some vacuously millennial-obsessed consulting firm.
This is my all-around favorite thing I've read on the internet this week! Thank you!
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Old Oct 26, 17, 11:44 pm
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I hate AF. Everything I have experienced with them stinks and this is just another example of their uselessness as a skyteam member.
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Old Oct 27, 17, 2:12 am
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Originally Posted by C W View Post
Welcome to FlyerTalk
Considering that your operating carrier changed, you should get a free rebooking. Maybe take advantage of that if you want other changes to your itinerary. Although having booked through Expedia makes that process much harder, one of the many reasons to stay well away from OTAs.
I'm in a similar situation to OP's but I booked directly through Air France's website (LIS-CDG-LAX return, LIS-CDG leg changed from AF to Joon). I asked them whether I could get a free rebooking of my flights to AF's partner KLM and got denied. Same for a full refund. Hope that if more people start complaining they change their stance on this.
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Old Oct 27, 17, 2:52 am
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Originally Posted by RMO View Post
I'm in a similar situation to OP's but I booked directly through Air France's website (LIS-CDG-LAX return, LIS-CDG leg changed from AF to Joon). I asked them whether I could get a free rebooking of my flights to AF's partner KLM and got denied. Same for a full refund. Hope that if more people start complaining they change their stance on this.
I'd keep trying and escalate to a credit card chargeback if needed.

There's absolutely no excuse for a full-service carrier involuntarily rebooking people onto an LCC.
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Old Oct 27, 17, 3:18 am
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There's two types of codeshares

1)airline sell seats on OAL flight by using their own code. Ie DL1015 is really AF007.
2)airline has OAL airline simply operate their flight for them. Ie AF1716. AF1716 is an actual AF flight, it is just operated by AF using Cityjet plane and crew. Cityjet doesn't operate it's own flight anf AF sell seats on it.

#2 gets mileage because its truly an AF flight just using different colored aircraft and crew.

#1 only gets mileage if both the marketing carrier and actual operating carrier are both ST.

My guess is since it's how AF does it with Cityjet, that #2 is how these flights are setup.
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Old Oct 27, 17, 4:01 am
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I'm in a similar situation to OP's but I booked directly through Air France's website (LIS-CDG-LAX return, LIS-CDG leg changed from AF to Joon). I asked them whether I could get a free rebooking of my flights to AF's partner KLM and got denied. Same for a full refund.
This is considered to be a flight cancellation. Even if the cancellation happens more than 2 weeks out, the passenger may choose a full refund. This is according to EC261/2004. I would press on with AF.
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Old Oct 27, 17, 4:41 am
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For those that are not aware it might be worth looking at

https://www.airfrance.fr/FR/en/local...eJoonAction.do

It answer a few of the question raised here under the Services and travel classes tab
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Old Oct 27, 17, 5:36 am
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[RANT]I just looked at the JOON website and did their survey rating it. At the end, I got a page saying "we're sorry you are unhappy.....please contact us by twitter or Facebook" with no option for either a phone call or email. This just reinforced my impression that JOON is some idiot MBA marketing project designed by a moron who thinks you can make a profitable airline by only appealing to a subset of millenials and putting off other potential customers. I wonder who they think will be buying the "business class" seats on these flights.[/RANT]
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Old Oct 27, 17, 6:52 am
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Note that AF has existing intra-Europe fares that don't earn any miles (X fares). I flew one last May between CDG and TXL. I wouldn't be so sure that Joon flights won't earn Skymiles. It seems it's being positioned as an AF brand rather than a separate airline like Transavia. They don't even have their own website.

Last edited by LBJ; Oct 27, 17 at 7:54 am
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Old Oct 27, 17, 7:29 am
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Originally Posted by C W View Post

Considering that your operating carrier changed, you should get a free rebooking.
That's a U.S. DOT rule. Is it also an EU consumer protection rule?

Given the absence of AF metal on the route (or ORY-BCN) I don't see that Expedia can offer sensible rebooking options to meet the OP's expectations to guarantee MQM.
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