Latest on connecting to BKK
Oct 23, 2017, 11:36 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: ANC
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 1,855
Latest on connecting to BKK
Hi All,
I'm in the very early stages of planning a vacation trip back to Thailand for Fall 2018 (most likely either Sep/Oct/Nov). Yes, it's a year away, but I'm already starting my planning. We've been twice and can't wait to go back. However, this will be our first trip since DL dropped service to BKK. I've followed some of the developments where customers can now connect in ICN on KE or PVG via MU. I'm leaning towards KE based on what I've read... but I've never flown either.
I'm now based in ANC so that complicates routings for any airline. My research on SkyTeam, OneWorld, and Star have all yielded essentially the same results... either really short or long connections. Gone are the days I'd enjoy a 2hr in ATL, then a 2 hr in NRT. With no obvious best choice, I think I'll stick with SkyTeam.
I'm seeing options that leave me a very short 1 hr 2 min in SEA on the outbound, or I could leave ANC just after midnight and have 6 hr 30 min in SEA. I'd be tempted to err on the side of caution and take the long layover. I've never had a good track record with SEA.
My questions:
1. Anyone who frequents BKK care to share their opinion of KE/ICN vs other routings for getting there booked via DL?
2. What suggested connection times in ICN would be appropriate? NRT was aways VERY prompt and I've made tight connections there in the past.
3. The return portion looks to have a 12+ hour connection in ICN. Any recommendations for ways to kill the time? Any worry of checked bags getting lost on the long connections?
Again, I know it's very far out and not even possible to see much past next September. But having an idea of the travel to/from BKK will help to shape the rest of my trip and how much time to spend in each city. Thanks for any help!
I'm in the very early stages of planning a vacation trip back to Thailand for Fall 2018 (most likely either Sep/Oct/Nov). Yes, it's a year away, but I'm already starting my planning. We've been twice and can't wait to go back. However, this will be our first trip since DL dropped service to BKK. I've followed some of the developments where customers can now connect in ICN on KE or PVG via MU. I'm leaning towards KE based on what I've read... but I've never flown either.
I'm now based in ANC so that complicates routings for any airline. My research on SkyTeam, OneWorld, and Star have all yielded essentially the same results... either really short or long connections. Gone are the days I'd enjoy a 2hr in ATL, then a 2 hr in NRT. With no obvious best choice, I think I'll stick with SkyTeam.
I'm seeing options that leave me a very short 1 hr 2 min in SEA on the outbound, or I could leave ANC just after midnight and have 6 hr 30 min in SEA. I'd be tempted to err on the side of caution and take the long layover. I've never had a good track record with SEA.
My questions:
1. Anyone who frequents BKK care to share their opinion of KE/ICN vs other routings for getting there booked via DL?
2. What suggested connection times in ICN would be appropriate? NRT was aways VERY prompt and I've made tight connections there in the past.
3. The return portion looks to have a 12+ hour connection in ICN. Any recommendations for ways to kill the time? Any worry of checked bags getting lost on the long connections?
Again, I know it's very far out and not even possible to see much past next September. But having an idea of the travel to/from BKK will help to shape the rest of my trip and how much time to spend in each city. Thanks for any help!
Oct 24, 2017, 12:12 am
#2
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,393
On the outbound, if you're looking at a 12 hour connection, I'd be tempted to make it about 23 hours (overnight in a hotel) and relax, maybe do something in Seattle if you're inclined. On international, connections can be up to 24 hours before they're charged as stopovers.
A new terminal is being built at ICN which might (or not) change things, but currently DL and other partner flights tend to operate from the (rather horrible IMO, with a lounge that's mostly white plastic, including the seats) satellite terminal while KE flights generally use the main terminal. They're connected by an underground train.
If you're arriving or departing at ICN, the lines can be long, but transit seems to be less of a problem. However, I seem to have bad luck in needing to go to a transit desk (find it and then wait in line, often with only one person for SkyPriority and one for partner flights) to get a boarding pass for the segment departing from ICN.
With 12 hours in ICN, depending on time of day, you can easily take the train or subway into the city and explore. (With luggage, I would suggest the various airport buses that go directly to your hotel.) Many of the tourist attractions are a longish walk from the main station or you can transfer on the very efficient subway system. There are some interesting university neighborhoods along the subway line from the airport before the main station. Just allow lots and lots of time for the return to get through passport control and airport security.
Alternatively in the neighborhood of the airport, there's a new monorail line which makes day rooms at more hotels (and some typical restaurants and bars) easily accessible. I've been told that there's an amusement park but I haven't explored it.
The Grand Hyatt ICN has a very frequent airport shuttle. KE uses their spa as an arrivals lounge for certain of their own passengers. Their are lounges, pools, outdoor deck space, multiple restaurants, etc. IIRC there's a casino in the hotel and a larger new one that you can see from some hotel windows.
I've never done it, but there seem to be (free) bus tours offered to those with long connections at ICN. There's also a program where you can arrange to be shown around individually (using public transportation) by a local who speaks English and has similar interests; for this, one must apply well in advance and of course cover the local volunteer's expenses, but otherwise participation is free.
For the BKK connections, I'd look at the schedule. I think all of SkyTeam uses gates in the same area and the same (AF/KLM) lounge at the far end of a concourse. Unlike the former DL intraAsia flights to/from BKK (RIP), it would be nice not to arrive around midnight and depart very early in the morning. I'd also be inclined to use KE rather than MU/CZ/etc. unless there's a huge difference in price or if one really needs the (nontier4) MQMs for DL status. Mainland China connections are subject to IROPs problems, often caused by ATC/military exercises taking over the airspace (and sometimes weather), which tend to be handled badly by these carriers. Their older lounges are bad. OTOH, KE regional business class is nothing special. Moreover, KE seating configurations in biz tend to be 2-2-2, including TPAC on their A380s, with IIRC some 2-3-2 aircraft with slanty beds still in use.
A new terminal is being built at ICN which might (or not) change things, but currently DL and other partner flights tend to operate from the (rather horrible IMO, with a lounge that's mostly white plastic, including the seats) satellite terminal while KE flights generally use the main terminal. They're connected by an underground train.
If you're arriving or departing at ICN, the lines can be long, but transit seems to be less of a problem. However, I seem to have bad luck in needing to go to a transit desk (find it and then wait in line, often with only one person for SkyPriority and one for partner flights) to get a boarding pass for the segment departing from ICN.
With 12 hours in ICN, depending on time of day, you can easily take the train or subway into the city and explore. (With luggage, I would suggest the various airport buses that go directly to your hotel.) Many of the tourist attractions are a longish walk from the main station or you can transfer on the very efficient subway system. There are some interesting university neighborhoods along the subway line from the airport before the main station. Just allow lots and lots of time for the return to get through passport control and airport security.
Alternatively in the neighborhood of the airport, there's a new monorail line which makes day rooms at more hotels (and some typical restaurants and bars) easily accessible. I've been told that there's an amusement park but I haven't explored it.
The Grand Hyatt ICN has a very frequent airport shuttle. KE uses their spa as an arrivals lounge for certain of their own passengers. Their are lounges, pools, outdoor deck space, multiple restaurants, etc. IIRC there's a casino in the hotel and a larger new one that you can see from some hotel windows.
I've never done it, but there seem to be (free) bus tours offered to those with long connections at ICN. There's also a program where you can arrange to be shown around individually (using public transportation) by a local who speaks English and has similar interests; for this, one must apply well in advance and of course cover the local volunteer's expenses, but otherwise participation is free.
For the BKK connections, I'd look at the schedule. I think all of SkyTeam uses gates in the same area and the same (AF/KLM) lounge at the far end of a concourse. Unlike the former DL intraAsia flights to/from BKK (RIP), it would be nice not to arrive around midnight and depart very early in the morning. I'd also be inclined to use KE rather than MU/CZ/etc. unless there's a huge difference in price or if one really needs the (nontier4) MQMs for DL status. Mainland China connections are subject to IROPs problems, often caused by ATC/military exercises taking over the airspace (and sometimes weather), which tend to be handled badly by these carriers. Their older lounges are bad. OTOH, KE regional business class is nothing special. Moreover, KE seating configurations in biz tend to be 2-2-2, including TPAC on their A380s, with IIRC some 2-3-2 aircraft with slanty beds still in use.
Oct 24, 2017, 12:34 am
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,042
I would (and do) go via PVG. For short PVG-BKK you'll actually be on Shanghai Airlines most likely. (Only one flight a day is actually MU metal) I've never had issues with them. Planes are fairly, if not brand new. I also find the crews a bit better in general.
PVG has a brand new lounge for T1. Really nice lounge with decent food and plenty of quite area in the upstairs. Also has lockers to store your stuff.
One of the main improvements is the connecting process at PVG T1. Going from DL to MU/FM (SHANGHAI AIRLINES) international you'll not need to clear immigration and customs like in the past. Also means you don't have to pickup luggage and recheck it anymore. You just goto transfer desk, they issue you a new BP and then through security and onto your gate.
Finally, international, including short haul international are generally IME less delayed then intra-China flights.
PVG has a brand new lounge for T1. Really nice lounge with decent food and plenty of quite area in the upstairs. Also has lockers to store your stuff.
One of the main improvements is the connecting process at PVG T1. Going from DL to MU/FM (SHANGHAI AIRLINES) international you'll not need to clear immigration and customs like in the past. Also means you don't have to pickup luggage and recheck it anymore. You just goto transfer desk, they issue you a new BP and then through security and onto your gate.
Finally, international, including short haul international are generally IME less delayed then intra-China flights.
Oct 24, 2017, 8:46 am
#4
Join Date: May 2015
Location: BWI
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 165
You might want to check China Airlines Vancouver-TPE-BKK. They generally have good deals out of Vancouver and you would get some Sky Miles benefits. On the other hand, the Anchorage-Vancouver tickets might cost a fortune; I do not know. You might not believe the typical prices between IAD/BWI and Montreal.
Oct 24, 2017, 11:18 am
#5
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta PM, 1MM
Posts: 3,782
I like to fly to SIN, where you arrive around midnight. I get a bowl of wonton soup, sleep a few hours in the reasonably priced airside transit hotel, then go on in the late morning on an inexpensive AirAsia flight to other Asian destinations. If you stick with carryon baggage you never leave the airside part of the airport. I find that this routine helps me to reset my internal clock, arrive at the final destination reasonable well rested, spend a few hours at the best airport in the world, and get a quick Singapore food fix.
Some passengers hate the SIN middle-of-the-night arrival (Hi, MSPeconomist!) but this routine works well for me.
Some passengers hate the SIN middle-of-the-night arrival (Hi, MSPeconomist!) but this routine works well for me.
Oct 25, 2017, 1:03 am
#6
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SJC/YUL
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,877
I'm headed to BKK in Jan, using using DL's A350 on DTW-ICN connecting to KE's A380 on ICN-BKK. While it's true KE's J product is 2-2-2, they have a quite nice bar area on board that I really enjoy, especially flying solo. Their 748 is a staggered 2-2-2 with direct aisle access.
Another option is to fly DL SEA-HKG, then there are short/cheap nonstops from HKG to either BKK or HKT.
If you're concerned about 1 hour vs 2 hour connections tho, I think this whole thing is way too premature. There are going to be multiple schedule changes between now and then that will completely change your connection times.
Another option is to fly DL SEA-HKG, then there are short/cheap nonstops from HKG to either BKK or HKT.
If you're concerned about 1 hour vs 2 hour connections tho, I think this whole thing is way too premature. There are going to be multiple schedule changes between now and then that will completely change your connection times.
Oct 25, 2017, 8:22 am
#7
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: BDU
Programs: DL:MM, Marriott:LTT
Posts: 8,779
I like to fly to SIN, where you arrive around midnight. I get a bowl of wonton soup, sleep a few hours in the reasonably priced airside transit hotel, then go on in the late morning on an inexpensive AirAsia flight to other Asian destinations. If you stick with carryon baggage you never leave the airside part of the airport. I find that this routine helps me to reset my internal clock, arrive at the final destination reasonable well rested, spend a few hours at the best airport in the world, and get a quick Singapore food fix.
Both times, the AirAsia flight to BKK took off from the same gate where the DL flight landed the night before. I watched them change the signage in the morning after the DL flight pushed back.
Oct 25, 2017, 8:37 am
#8
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: BDU
Programs: DL:MM, Marriott:LTT
Posts: 8,779
If you can break the DL addiction, the ME3 airlines +Turkish are better options. The price is lower, the service better and the arrival time is when it is when the sun is up. ST can be $1k+ more per ticket. Points aren't worth that much. Flying out of JFK can bring a coach ticket down to below $500 r/t. Adding a points ticket r/t to JFK or even a cheap fare can still save you hundreds if not thousands.
ADDED: Just checked for Nov 22-30. China Southern is $468 r/t JFK-BKK. The ME3s are about $150 more. DL is $700 more.
ADDED: Just checked for Nov 22-30. China Southern is $468 r/t JFK-BKK. The ME3s are about $150 more. DL is $700 more.
Oct 25, 2017, 8:57 am
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,037
I'm seeing two daily flights on BKK-ICN -- KE660 and KE652. KE660 has a 10:00AM departure and a 1h 25m connection to DL198 which seems entirely reasonable to me. Currently pricing at $924 RT from ANC for next September which seems pretty reasonable.
Oct 25, 2017, 11:55 am
#10
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: STL
Programs: DL DM, UA PS, MR Plt, A-Club Plt, HH G, Avis First
Posts: 272
On the outbound, if you're looking at a 12 hour connection, I'd be tempted to make it about 23 hours (overnight in a hotel) and relax, maybe do something in Seattle if you're inclined. On international, connections can be up to 24 hours before they're charged as stopovers.
A new terminal is being built at ICN which might (or not) change things, but currently DL and other partner flights tend to operate from the (rather horrible IMO, with a lounge that's mostly white plastic, including the seats) satellite terminal while KE flights generally use the main terminal. They're connected by an underground train.
If you're arriving or departing at ICN, the lines can be long, but transit seems to be less of a problem. However, I seem to have bad luck in needing to go to a transit desk (find it and then wait in line, often with only one person for SkyPriority and one for partner flights) to get a boarding pass for the segment departing from ICN.
With 12 hours in ICN, depending on time of day, you can easily take the train or subway into the city and explore. (With luggage, I would suggest the various airport buses that go directly to your hotel.) Many of the tourist attractions are a longish walk from the main station or you can transfer on the very efficient subway system. There are some interesting university neighborhoods along the subway line from the airport before the main station. Just allow lots and lots of time for the return to get through passport control and airport security.
Alternatively in the neighborhood of the airport, there's a new monorail line which makes day rooms at more hotels (and some typical restaurants and bars) easily accessible. I've been told that there's an amusement park but I haven't explored it.
The Grand Hyatt ICN has a very frequent airport shuttle. KE uses their spa as an arrivals lounge for certain of their own passengers. Their are lounges, pools, outdoor deck space, multiple restaurants, etc. IIRC there's a casino in the hotel and a larger new one that you can see from some hotel windows.
I've never done it, but there seem to be (free) bus tours offered to those with long connections at ICN. There's also a program where you can arrange to be shown around individually (using public transportation) by a local who speaks English and has similar interests; for this, one must apply well in advance and of course cover the local volunteer's expenses, but otherwise participation is free.
For the BKK connections, I'd look at the schedule. I think all of SkyTeam uses gates in the same area and the same (AF/KLM) lounge at the far end of a concourse. Unlike the former DL intraAsia flights to/from BKK (RIP), it would be nice not to arrive around midnight and depart very early in the morning. I'd also be inclined to use KE rather than MU/CZ/etc. unless there's a huge difference in price or if one really needs the (nontier4) MQMs for DL status. Mainland China connections are subject to IROPs problems, often caused by ATC/military exercises taking over the airspace (and sometimes weather), which tend to be handled badly by these carriers. Their older lounges are bad. OTOH, KE regional business class is nothing special. Moreover, KE seating configurations in biz tend to be 2-2-2, including TPAC on their A380s, with IIRC some 2-3-2 aircraft with slanty beds still in use.
A new terminal is being built at ICN which might (or not) change things, but currently DL and other partner flights tend to operate from the (rather horrible IMO, with a lounge that's mostly white plastic, including the seats) satellite terminal while KE flights generally use the main terminal. They're connected by an underground train.
If you're arriving or departing at ICN, the lines can be long, but transit seems to be less of a problem. However, I seem to have bad luck in needing to go to a transit desk (find it and then wait in line, often with only one person for SkyPriority and one for partner flights) to get a boarding pass for the segment departing from ICN.
With 12 hours in ICN, depending on time of day, you can easily take the train or subway into the city and explore. (With luggage, I would suggest the various airport buses that go directly to your hotel.) Many of the tourist attractions are a longish walk from the main station or you can transfer on the very efficient subway system. There are some interesting university neighborhoods along the subway line from the airport before the main station. Just allow lots and lots of time for the return to get through passport control and airport security.
Alternatively in the neighborhood of the airport, there's a new monorail line which makes day rooms at more hotels (and some typical restaurants and bars) easily accessible. I've been told that there's an amusement park but I haven't explored it.
The Grand Hyatt ICN has a very frequent airport shuttle. KE uses their spa as an arrivals lounge for certain of their own passengers. Their are lounges, pools, outdoor deck space, multiple restaurants, etc. IIRC there's a casino in the hotel and a larger new one that you can see from some hotel windows.
I've never done it, but there seem to be (free) bus tours offered to those with long connections at ICN. There's also a program where you can arrange to be shown around individually (using public transportation) by a local who speaks English and has similar interests; for this, one must apply well in advance and of course cover the local volunteer's expenses, but otherwise participation is free.
For the BKK connections, I'd look at the schedule. I think all of SkyTeam uses gates in the same area and the same (AF/KLM) lounge at the far end of a concourse. Unlike the former DL intraAsia flights to/from BKK (RIP), it would be nice not to arrive around midnight and depart very early in the morning. I'd also be inclined to use KE rather than MU/CZ/etc. unless there's a huge difference in price or if one really needs the (nontier4) MQMs for DL status. Mainland China connections are subject to IROPs problems, often caused by ATC/military exercises taking over the airspace (and sometimes weather), which tend to be handled badly by these carriers. Their older lounges are bad. OTOH, KE regional business class is nothing special. Moreover, KE seating configurations in biz tend to be 2-2-2, including TPAC on their A380s, with IIRC some 2-3-2 aircraft with slanty beds still in use.