DL CMH-AMS/CDG Possible?

Old Oct 21, 2017, 4:54 pm
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Cledaybuck
I don't think I have ever heard Michigan and Ohio be described as not midwestern before. Culturally, they are very much midwestern. If you want to say Buffalo and Pittsburgh have more in common with midwestern cities than the east coast, I would buy that.
Have to agree. My mother is from Cincinnati and my father is from NYC. Perhaps Cincinnati and Cleveland as cities has stuff in common with NYC, but rural Ohio is much closer to say Iowa or Nebraska than it is to New York in terms of culture. The closest would be that in the early part of the 20th Centrury, certain structures in Cincinnati were built and then used as models for structures built in NYC, such as the Carew Tower for the Empire State Building or the Roebling Suspension Bridge for the Brooklyn Bridge.
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Old Oct 21, 2017, 7:55 pm
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Obviously some folks have never heard of the Connecticut Reserve in Ohio. Northern Michigan and Michigan east of US-127 have a long tradition of northeastern and New England manufacturing and Protestant/Yankee culture.
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Old Oct 21, 2017, 7:55 pm
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I've lived in Ohio my entire life and I've always felt more Midwestern than Northeastern.

I met a girl who moved here for work from Connecticut and she was amazed at how friendly people are in comparison to NY/NJ/CT.

Originally Posted by Ysitincoach
I thought the city and airport authority were stung pretty hard with dumping public money into the failed SkyBus venture.

Now that PIT & CLE have TATL, it's possible CMH feels left out.

Who knows. Airlines and public governing bodies have done dumber things with your money.
WN's CMH-OAK, launched in 2015 (I think), had $1.7M in revenue guarantees because it would give Columbus a nonstop to the Bay Area (and UA wasn't coming), though it's unclear how much of it was ever used because the route was able to stand on its own.
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Old Oct 21, 2017, 8:45 pm
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
For what it's worth, CVG-CDG is very profitable for Delta judging by a Google Flights search of airfares. For the entire month of November and December, only one week -- between Christmas and New Year's -- has business-class airfares below $6,200. Some weeks the airfare is $10,000.
A company can pretty much set prices arbitrarily and it doesn't mean anything if they can't sell stuff at the given price. For all we know, DL could set the fare to be $10K but get no passengers at that price.
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Old Oct 22, 2017, 7:58 pm
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Odds

What are the odds that this flight/route will actually happen?
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Old Oct 22, 2017, 9:01 pm
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
I don't think any city or state in the Eastern time zone can be midwestern, by definition. Most of Ohio and most of Michigan (at least east of US-127) has more in common culturally with Pennsylvania and New York.
LAMO!

There is NOTHING east coast about Ohio. Good heavens, it's about as midwestern as it gets. Most of Pennsylvania (the western 2/3) are not even east coast.
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Old Oct 22, 2017, 9:23 pm
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Originally Posted by Paul E Thomas
What are the odds that this flight/route will actually happen?
0%
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Old Oct 23, 2017, 4:40 am
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Paul E Thomas
What are the odds that this flight/route will actually happen?
I wouldn't think they are very good but I dismissed the possibility of IND-CDG, too.

http://news.delta.com/delta-launch-n...nning-may-2018

The FAA places time limits on incentives and subsidies for new service when airport revenues are used. Private money - say, corporate funds or Chamber of Commerce-type stuff - can be offered longer term.

https://www.faa.gov/airports/airport...ntive-2010.pdf
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Old Oct 23, 2017, 7:07 am
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Originally Posted by SOBE ER DOC
LAMO!

There is NOTHING east coast about Ohio. Good heavens, it's about as midwestern as it gets. Most of Pennsylvania (the western 2/3) are not even east coast.
Absolutely. My wife grew up in Pittsburgh, and I'm from rural Ohio. Not a huge cultural difference in our childhoods. A couple different slang terms, but that's about it.
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Old Oct 23, 2017, 7:15 am
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Originally Posted by Paul E Thomas
What are the odds that this flight/route will actually happen?
Originally Posted by 3Cforme
I wouldn't think they are very good but I dismissed the possibility of IND-CDG, too.

http://news.delta.com/delta-launch-n...nning-may-2018

The FAA places time limits on incentives and subsidies for new service when airport revenues are used. Private money - say, corporate funds or Chamber of Commerce-type stuff - can be offered longer term.

https://www.faa.gov/airports/airport...ntive-2010.pdf
I'm willing to bet that IND/CDG and any potential CMH/CDG or AMS are relatively linked, we just don't know how. They are both state capitals with relatively similar population figures, both about the same distance from major hubs in ORD & DTW respectively.

If IND/CDG does great, DL could then decide to try CMH/AMS. Or they could decide one will take too much from the other

If IND/CDG does poorly, DL could then decide to move it to CMH/AMS or CDG to see if it does better there, or they could decide that area is over-saturated right now and not do anything TATL from CMH.

So really anything can happen. I doubt anyone at DL really knows at this moment too.
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Old Oct 23, 2017, 7:27 am
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
Obviously some folks have never heard of the Connecticut Reserve in Ohio. Northern Michigan and Michigan east of US-127 have a long tradition of northeastern and New England manufacturing and Protestant/Yankee culture.
Living in Detroit the majority of my life, I always felt more connected to the east coast culture than the Midwest culture. But the rest of MI I can see being more Midwest, especially Grand Rapids.
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Old Oct 23, 2017, 9:20 am
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Originally Posted by JSprague24
With the Midwestern TATL feeding frenzy in recent months (CLE, CVG, IND, STL, BNA), the last major city which could conceivably draw TATL service to not land a dance partner to this point is CMH.
I don't recall exactly which cities got what airline service, but from the STL perspective it is TATL in name only. A connection at KEF to UK/mainland (even if efficient at the airport itself) to me is not a selling point (the opposite actually). Pricing out some flights, if you want a service level even close to on-par with legacy carriers (you know, taking a bag), the cost difference is minimal.

The challenge for non-hub Midwest metros >1M is that in most cases, there is no single aisle plane that has range to Europe (excl. Iceland, obviously) and they do not have the O&D to support widebody service. Along the same lines, you probably need *some* point-to-point flying to these cities (for feed) to fill TATL.

I haven't been to CMH recently, but it seems DL has a reasonable presence there, so who knows - even with incentives considered, I was shocked when they announced IND.

I wish DL would pay some more active attention to STL (you know, maybe fly to SEA, LAX, and JFK, to start...). We're starting to look like MDW-south with WN passenger share quickly approaching 60% and showing no signs of stopping (heck they are even reopening parts of the old D concourse to make sure there's enough gates for WN). If there's one airline you can bet on that will not fly TATL, probably ever, it is WN.
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Old Oct 23, 2017, 7:06 pm
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Originally Posted by woodenshoe101
I don't recall exactly which cities got what airline service, but from the STL perspective it is TATL in name only. A connection at KEF to UK/mainland (even if efficient at the airport itself) to me is not a selling point (the opposite actually). Pricing out some flights, if you want a service level even close to on-par with legacy carriers (you know, taking a bag), the cost difference is minimal.

The challenge for non-hub Midwest metros >1M is that in most cases, there is no single aisle plane that has range to Europe (excl. Iceland, obviously) and they do not have the O&D to support widebody service. Along the same lines, you probably need *some* point-to-point flying to these cities (for feed) to fill TATL.

I haven't been to CMH recently, but it seems DL has a reasonable presence there, so who knows - even with incentives considered, I was shocked when they announced IND.

I wish DL would pay some more active attention to STL (you know, maybe fly to SEA, LAX, and JFK, to start...). We're starting to look like MDW-south with WN passenger share quickly approaching 60% and showing no signs of stopping (heck they are even reopening parts of the old D concourse to make sure there's enough gates for WN). If there's one airline you can bet on that will not fly TATL, probably ever, it is WN.
CLE- FI, WW (KEF)
CVG- WW (KEF, in addition to existing DL service to CDG)
PIT- WW (KEF, in addition to existing DE FRA and upgauged to 763 DL CDG service)
STL- WW (KEF)
IND- DL (CDG)
BNA- BA (LHR)
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Old Oct 23, 2017, 7:09 pm
  #29  
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I fear a TATL bubble is forming. And all bubbles eventually burst. Small cities like IND just can't support such flights in a bad economy.
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Old Oct 23, 2017, 11:09 pm
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Originally Posted by northwest_buckeye
Absolutely. My wife grew up in Pittsburgh, and I'm from rural Ohio. Not a huge cultural difference in our childhoods. A couple different slang terms, but that's about it.
But there is a HUGE difference between Philly and Pittsburgh. They are like two different worlds.
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