PaulInTheSky

Showed up in the FT news:

https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/d...-upgrades.html

Original Source.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/class...151738967.html

That probably explains the following:

Why won't Delta offer Diamonds a free cocktail or beer?

Glad you said that out loud, DL.

MSPeconomist

In the past, there was concern (and supposedly some data/analytics) that offering additional "intermediate" or "lower" cabins would cannibalize sales of the higher cabin. For example, USA legacy carriers avoided offering premium economy because they feared that many of these passengers would otherwise purchase business class tickets. Similarly, for basic economy, the question would be whether these are new passengers who otherwise would have flown a LCC versus those who would have purchased more expensive coach tickets. Of course, for the case of basic economy, part of the goal is to grab market share from the LCC for long run strategic purposes.

KDCAflyer

Basic economy has nothing to do with competing against ULCCs and everything to do with pushing through a de-facto fare hike.

Orange County Commuter

If one airline gets brave enough to really cut back I think all the majors will follow.... None of them really want to give us stuff

MSPeconomist

.....but they do want to have a bunch of passengers who don't focus on price and necessarily buy the cheapest ticket or most convenient schedule.

xliioper

Bastian is hardly "new" at this point. Here is the exact quote rather than the headline paraphrase --

"Any business where you give the majority of your best product away for free doesn’t work,”

But we've already known this for several years now that they want comp upgrades to be a minority of seats --

Delta Sees the End of First Class Upgrades in 2018

PaulInTheSky

If we have a CEO or all US3 executives thinking they shouldn't give anything for free, then you can see why DL and AA have the PEY coming out - Instead of giving DL C+/AA PEY up for free to DL/AA elites, they want to make it from slightly more expensive than the main cabin, to making it a completely different class, yet leaving some empty seats to AA elites if they can't sell them during the date of departure.

The fact of the matter is when AA, UA, and DL make the F seats slimline, cutting the leg rest, and minimizing the recliner angles, it is essentially aligning their US domestic product to Europe Js. You see the airlines want to maximize the Y occupancy by cutting the F hard product. I wondered if we will enter the all Y config domestic aircraft type and block the middle seats for F seating, just like most Europe flights.

Customers seeing the CEO saying directly upgrades are freebie and shouldn't be given to them should be discouraged. In INTL, you would rather just go partners premium. You usually get more MQMs, MQDs on partners PEY+.

xliioper

Again, he did not say they did not want to give away "anything" for free. He said they did not believe that giving away the "majority" of your best seats away was something they didn't believe worked as a business model. Best to stick with the facts rather than fake news headlines.

bclossin

I am very happy my frequent flier days are coming to an end especially since 99% of my activity has been on Delta. First they increase the Reserve Card waiver from 25K to 250K which is insane, and now they are starting to make upgrading even harder?

No thanks Ed.

xliioper

Been going on for 6+ years now --

First Class Monetization, or FCM: The Definitive Thread

s0ssos

Would you like to finish your quote?

"This is the best real estate on the planet, and while we appreciate the loyalty of flyers, we couldn’t continue to give it away."

xliioper

Which references past tense changes to not give away majority of seats -- aka FCM. The headline implies something new and that there will no longer be any comp upgrades at all. I don't really think that's what being said here and it is simply a reference to past changes to sell more FC seats which is nothing really new.

apodo77

I can’t insert enough LOL emojis to match my laughter at the best real estate in the world comment.

bergamini

Yes, for sure, DL is acting arrogant now. They used BK to bail on creditors/shareholders and are taking advantage of low fuel prices and a growing economy to fuel their belief that they are the most awesome airline out there, unless it rains in ATL. It is annoying but will eventually, probably, flip when fuel goes up or pax numbers go down.

With that said, I've been around a long time and have seen so many years with net losses so it can't be all give, give, give to the pax. I personally like smart FCM. The true cost of a first class seat on a non-sold-out flight is pretty minimal and back in 2000, I would see the fare differential be $250 vs $950 on MSN<>DAY which was ridiculous. If it's $50-100 segment then it is available to many more people. They just need to improve the pricing model but it's gotten way better.

At the end of the day for me, I'm close to not being loyal and just booking based on convenience because ultimately the loyalty programs are not that different and if I have to be in Y, I might as well be in Y on the best flight for me. I'm not there yet but could easily be.

It would be nice if Alaska and Jet Blue were able to develop large enough networks to put a bit more fear in the legacy carriers currently arrogant attitudes.

kop84

But part of what affects the cost structure for DL, UA, AA is the large network. Having to keep staff at hundreds more airports than B6 or AS, owning hundreds more planes, more plane types, etc.

With their expansion that will come additional costs and that will lead to an increased pressure to sell more F