sky303

It's a perk that lets them hire people that would otherwise be paid more and costs a heck of a lot less than paying at market for people like accounting, legal, other administrative roles. I think being able to advertise that as a benefit of the job is a huge benefit to the airline.

davetravels

That's the theory that's alwayz posted here, but, I can't help thinking that most people would still take the job anyway - at the same pay. They'd still get the same free travel benefits; just not in J.

Don't get me wrong - - - I'm not taking sides, and it really doesn't make a difference to me either way.

SJC ORD LDR

I have no problem with non-revs getting the best seats available. They do get domestic F if the upgrade list is exhausted as well. No biggie.

Zorak

Yes, but that's not the sense he's talking about.

Effect #1 : if there is a chance you can get upgraded for free, some people who might otherwise have WFBF will instead take their chances with the upgrade lottery. In this scenario DL loses out on revenue because such people bought cheaper Y fares instead of buying F outright.

Effect #2 : the chance for a free upgrade might cause someone who would not otherwise fly DL, or fly DL as much, to buy a DL ticket vs. another airline or driving.

Which of the two effects is greater is basically the root of the debate.

Non-revs are irrelevant (to this discussion point, I mean, I love my NR friends that I have made through FT ) because (in theory, if there is no Shena, which I realize there is in practice) they are seated only after eligible elite upgrades have been processed. So they do not by themselves cause less revenue for the airline because they are not taking a seat away from a paying passenger (whether WFBF outright or upgraded from a Y ticket)

davetravels

BINGO! Egggggggzactly!

minnyfly

I got word they were all revenue passengers booked into first that needed a seat assignment. Not sure about the details, but nothing was done wrong.

For some jobs like pilots, yeah, I don't think it makes a huge difference. Their pay is so high pass travel isn't a make or break factor. But as long as other airlines offer it, it's not like you can just cut your program either. However for low-paying jobs like rampers or gate agents, pass travel can be a huge perk. Some take the job just for that benefit alone.

It's clear that the legacy airlines believe the effect surrounding #1 wins out, otherwise they wouldn't all limit business upgrades. Another effect of it is that J pricing would have to fall to become attractive against free upgrades.

MSPeconomist

Thye're not totally irrelevant for this discussion in that the same logic applies: If not for the premium cabin nonrev privilege, some of the nonrevs would have purchased premium cabin tickets, although the percentage might be smaller than the percentage of hypothetically upgraded revenue customers who otherwise would have instead purchased a premium cabin ticket.

davetravels

Right, but, I would think that for most non-managerial positions, people looking for jobs need to work to earn a living, and just free past travel alone, even in Y, is good enough to entice people to take the job. Flying for free in J is just the icing on the cake.

sky303

I think what I was thinking was that, while it would probably not be much of a problem recruitment wise if they ALL changed to Y only, or at least YJ instead of JY priority; one airline changing it sees a natural competitive advantage loss when it comes to recruitment. But maybe that's overthinking it.

MSPeconomist

Are airlines really competing with each other to hire the same people or do job seekers take jobs where they are located or at the time the job is needed? If someone can get a DL job at ATL now, do they really think in terms of the UA job at UA that could become available in six months?

PreteniousFlyer

Oh my Gawd! People who work for the airline, who make the airline run, got bumped ahead of the overweight middle aged businessman. I would sue I tell ya! Sue Sue Sue!!! Either that or buy a F'N first class seat like I do. Time to change your diapers...

pvn

they are never squeezing out a paying customer, though.

Free upgrades for medallions would cause a lot of DMs to buy Y instead of J.

pvn

No, they don't.

Often1

Getting past the definitions of "pilot" versus "captain," the bottom line is there are no freebie Medallion UG's on international or other D1 services. In fact, the freebies on DL & UA are pretty much of a worldwide exception.

OPUPS are granted for "operational" reasons, most often the fact that the aircraft is overbooked in Y and at risk of an oversale. It is to DL's operational advantage to bump some Y pax to J rather than pay out IDB/VDB.

The theory behind not doling these out to Y pax is the same as non-US carriers, and AA except as to EXP's, have as to UG's in the first place. The more freebies, the more diluted the product becomes. It does brand damage.

Non-rev's on the other hand, are not brand-sensitive. They simply get the best seat available after all other pax are acommodated. On an international flight, that means D1 if there are people who have not paid for them.

RRDD

Hey, who are you calling middle aged?