Delta pricing to ORF outrageous!
Aug 14, 2017, 7:22 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southwest CT
Programs: DL Diamond and Million Miler, Marriott Titanium Elite, Hertz Pres Circle
Posts: 7,618
Delta pricing to ORF outrageous!
Looking to book a round trip from LGA to ORF departing on Wednesday, September 6 and returning on Thursday, September 8. Just did this same flight two weeks ago and paid $332.00. Now the fare is $702! I sent an e-mail to Delta asking if this was in fact correct. After the usual "thank you for your loyalty and your Platinum status, etc etc", here is the response I got.
[INDENT]
[INDENT]
Delta's
schedules and fares are designed to meet the needs of our worldwide
customer base, while operating the airline cost effectively. In doing
so, we have challenging decisions to make surrounding what types of
fares we offer in a particular location. This decision is influenced by
our need to best match aircraft capacity and frequency of service to
passenger demand.
Fares can be complex and are not always related to the distance flown.
We set a non-discounted Main Cabin rate in each market dictated by our
operating costs. These fares are usually higher in the larger cities we
serve.
It is fairly common practice for some airlines to offer promotional
fares to stimulate travel with no consideration for the cost of
providing the service. We often match these fares to remain competitive.
However, Delta must maintain a level of profitability to justify the
number and frequency of seats offered in the New York City to Norfolk
market. We are proud of our New York City to Norfolk operation and are
continuously trying to improve the service provided. We strive to keep
fares as competitive as possible without losing money.
And this on a CRJ200, with the possibility of being "upgraded" to Comfort + in the bulk head row, and for a 50 minute flight.schedules and fares are designed to meet the needs of our worldwide
customer base, while operating the airline cost effectively. In doing
so, we have challenging decisions to make surrounding what types of
fares we offer in a particular location. This decision is influenced by
our need to best match aircraft capacity and frequency of service to
passenger demand.
Fares can be complex and are not always related to the distance flown.
We set a non-discounted Main Cabin rate in each market dictated by our
operating costs. These fares are usually higher in the larger cities we
serve.
It is fairly common practice for some airlines to offer promotional
fares to stimulate travel with no consideration for the cost of
providing the service. We often match these fares to remain competitive.
However, Delta must maintain a level of profitability to justify the
number and frequency of seats offered in the New York City to Norfolk
market. We are proud of our New York City to Norfolk operation and are
continuously trying to improve the service provided. We strive to keep
fares as competitive as possible without losing money.
Aug 14, 2017, 7:32 pm
#3
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: PIT, BWI, or IPT
Programs: Dividend Miles, WorldPerks
Posts: 1,302
This flight would be an excellently cheap use of miles....15,000 R/T or 4.7 CPM. Can hardly find that on D1 international routes these days.
If this is a business trip, which I suspect it is, DL expects you to use OPM and not care about the cost.
If this is a business trip, which I suspect it is, DL expects you to use OPM and not care about the cost.
Aug 14, 2017, 7:54 pm
#4
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: TYS
Programs: Delta, AA, Hilton
Posts: 149
This is the week after Labor Day so it may just be that there are more people taking vacations on this route that have already scooped up the cheaper fares. It looks like the direct flights available on those dates are on an H fare, which is fairly pricey.
Aug 14, 2017, 8:02 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southwest CT
Programs: DL Diamond and Million Miler, Marriott Titanium Elite, Hertz Pres Circle
Posts: 7,618
Yeah, this is a business trip. I did book a RT from JFK, for a measly $532. Oy!
Aug 14, 2017, 8:13 pm
#6
Join Date: May 2006
Location: GA
Programs: VA-PLT, QF-GLD, DL-GM, UA-ex1K, AA-exPLT, HH-DM, IHG-PLT, MR-GLD
Posts: 8,242
You've been registered here for 14 years... surely you have seen crazy pricing before?
I've paid (well, OK, it was my employer) >$700 on short US domestic CRJ flights at least a dozen times in the past 5 years. I've even seen them over $1000 before.
My previous employer (US based) had business in Italy and they moved it to the USA to save money. Turned out the flights were more expensive domestically than to Europe over the course of the next year.
There is very little competition in the US domestic market these days.
I've paid (well, OK, it was my employer) >$700 on short US domestic CRJ flights at least a dozen times in the past 5 years. I've even seen them over $1000 before.
My previous employer (US based) had business in Italy and they moved it to the USA to save money. Turned out the flights were more expensive domestically than to Europe over the course of the next year.
There is very little competition in the US domestic market these days.
Aug 14, 2017, 8:45 pm
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,056
Those $322 roundtrip X fares (actually, currently $328) have a 30-day advance purchase requirement and you are outside that window --
"RESERVATIONS FOR ALL SECTORS ARE REQUIRED AT LEAST 30 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. TICKETING FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 1 DAY AFTER RESERVATIONS ARE MADE OR AT LEAST 30 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE WHICHEVER IS EARLIER."
As others have indicated, $700 is hardly unusual for a mid-week trip without a Saturday night stay on a route with no LCC competition and this has been the case for decades. Add a Saturday night stay, and there will be considerably cheaper fare classes available that are aimed at leisure flyers who are willing to include a Saturday night stay to get a cheaper fare. A mid-week roundtrip on DTW-ORF without a Saturday night stay goes for $607 minimum no matter how far in advance you purchase. And if you are purchasing less than 2 weeks out it is $1000+ as those K fares have a 14-day advance purchase requirement.
"RESERVATIONS FOR ALL SECTORS ARE REQUIRED AT LEAST 30 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. TICKETING FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 1 DAY AFTER RESERVATIONS ARE MADE OR AT LEAST 30 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE WHICHEVER IS EARLIER."
As others have indicated, $700 is hardly unusual for a mid-week trip without a Saturday night stay on a route with no LCC competition and this has been the case for decades. Add a Saturday night stay, and there will be considerably cheaper fare classes available that are aimed at leisure flyers who are willing to include a Saturday night stay to get a cheaper fare. A mid-week roundtrip on DTW-ORF without a Saturday night stay goes for $607 minimum no matter how far in advance you purchase. And if you are purchasing less than 2 weeks out it is $1000+ as those K fares have a 14-day advance purchase requirement.
Last edited by xliioper; Aug 14, 2017 at 9:09 pm
Aug 14, 2017, 8:51 pm
#8
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 209
I frequently have to pay $700+ for Atlanta to Key West... I'm convinced DL and WN worked out a deal somewhere else in their systems to get WN to drop ATLEYW.
Also, I thought DL got rid of most of these, but for a Puerto Vallarta trip in January, you can save over $350 per person by driving 2 hours to BHM and flying through Atlanta on the same dang flight we would have taken from Atlanta.
Also, I thought DL got rid of most of these, but for a Puerto Vallarta trip in January, you can save over $350 per person by driving 2 hours to BHM and flying through Atlanta on the same dang flight we would have taken from Atlanta.
Aug 14, 2017, 9:22 pm
#9
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Land of 10,000 Upgrades
Posts: 9,465
Aug 15, 2017, 3:55 am
#10
Join Date: Dec 2011
Programs: Delta Flyer
Posts: 227
Well, as soon as PHF gets direct service to somewhere other than CLT, PHL, and ATL (or if they finally build another tunnel/teleporter) I imagine you may still have the good luck of paying a premium at ORF.
The beauty of these two co-terminals is that you have some good flexibility in pricing discrepancies, additional seats, and PHF is just a joy to fly out of... the problem with these two co-terminals is that the 25 miles that separates them can quickly become a two hour trip on a bad day and PHF only has three flights to Atlanta a day and two airlines.
The beauty of these two co-terminals is that you have some good flexibility in pricing discrepancies, additional seats, and PHF is just a joy to fly out of... the problem with these two co-terminals is that the 25 miles that separates them can quickly become a two hour trip on a bad day and PHF only has three flights to Atlanta a day and two airlines.
Aug 15, 2017, 4:07 am
#11
Join Date: May 2015
Location: DCA
Programs: AA EXP, DL FO, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 6,712
I frequently have to pay $700+ for Atlanta to Key West... I'm convinced DL and WN worked out a deal somewhere else in their systems to get WN to drop ATLEYW.
Also, I thought DL got rid of most of these, but for a Puerto Vallarta trip in January, you can save over $350 per person by driving 2 hours to BHM and flying through Atlanta on the same dang flight we would have taken from Atlanta.
Also, I thought DL got rid of most of these, but for a Puerto Vallarta trip in January, you can save over $350 per person by driving 2 hours to BHM and flying through Atlanta on the same dang flight we would have taken from Atlanta.
We used to do that with DAY or SDF when CVG was a large hub. So obnoxious.
Last edited by KDCAflyer; Aug 15, 2017 at 4:15 am
Aug 15, 2017, 4:41 am
#12
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA
Programs: DL Gold / AA Gold
Posts: 609
I've long suspected that there's collusion between DL and WN at ATL. The buyout of FL and subsequent destruction of their ATL hub, the sweet 717 lease deal that WN gave DL, the dropping of what should be good routes like EYW. It smells.
We used to do that with DAY or SDF when CVG was a large hub. So obnoxious.
We used to do that with DAY or SDF when CVG was a large hub. So obnoxious.
It is illegal. Those airlines just happen to know the secret handshake between different carrier's RM.
Aug 15, 2017, 5:23 am
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
Fare basics like advance purchase, minimum stay restrictions, and the value of weekday trips shouldn't take 14 years on FlyerTalk to figure out.
Aug 15, 2017, 5:50 am
#14
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 863
I've long suspected that there's collusion between DL and WN at ATL. The buyout of FL and subsequent destruction of their ATL hub, the sweet 717 lease deal that WN gave DL, the dropping of what should be good routes like EYW. It smells.
We used to do that with DAY or SDF when CVG was a large hub. So obnoxious.
We used to do that with DAY or SDF when CVG was a large hub. So obnoxious.
Aug 15, 2017, 6:11 am
#15
Join Date: May 2015
Location: DCA
Programs: AA EXP, DL FO, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 6,712
That 717 lease deal really is amazing for DL. Other than that, we don't have direct evidence, since it's difficult to see a lack of expansion/market presence vs drawdown in an established market. There may very well be a few markets where DL has paid WN back by not pushing for a larger market share.
The airlines are all about stable, predictable income these days. Collusion would help to ensure that, vs intense competition.
The airlines are all about stable, predictable income these days. Collusion would help to ensure that, vs intense competition.