MSPeconomist

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:

If you request a GUC/RUC upgrade only for a long (TATL/TPAC) segment and it clears, do not assume that you can still then use the same GUC/RUC to cover additional shorter segments in the same direction and on the same fare component. Once the ticket has been (instantly in my case) reissued with the D1 upgrade, that upgrade cert is closed and considered to be fully used.

PREVIOUS BEST PRACTICE:

If GUC/RUC supported upgrades cannot be confirmed at the time of ticketing, many of us follow the "best practice" of only waitlisting the longest or most important segment in the direction or on the fare component. The idea is to avoid wasting the GUC/RUC on a short connecting flight in case the longer segment doesn't clear. If/when the waitlisted upgrade on the long segment clears, we call DL to extend the GUC/RUC to all segments in the direction/fare component, either upgrading or waitlisting each additional segment in order to get maximum value from the GUC/RUC.

THE POLICY CHANGE:
However, there seems to be a possibly inadvertent consequence of the new rules about a GUC being fully used if one upgrades to premium economy and wants to waitlist or upgrade later to D1 on the same flight, so that a second GUC is required in these circumstances: one GUC to go from coach to premium economy and a second GUC to go later from premium economy. [Note that DL says now that if you can immediately confirm D1 upgrade space, one GUC will suffice to go directly from coach to D1.]

DETAILS (my one data point):

When I booked my ticket, no upgrade space was available in one direction on the day I needed to travel, although the D1 and FC cabins appeared (on seat maps, EF, and from what DM agents said) to be wide open. As usual, I waitlisted the long haul fight for the D1 upgrade but didn't request a GUC upgrade at that time on the domestic connecting flight. The DM phone agent who sold me the ticket suggested that I do this, and moreover when I called again during the 24 hour cancel period to check for upgrade inventory and to verify that the GUC waitlist was done correctly, a different DM agent reiterated that I was doing this right to only waitlist the long segment at this time.

Just after the 24 hour free cancellation period ended, I was upgraded on the long segment, at approximately 2:00 am ATL time. Less that fifteen minutes later, DL sent me an email announcing the upgrade and saying that my ticket had been reissued. When I found the email in the morning, I immediately called DL to request that the GUC be extended to include the domestic connecting flight. There was upgrade space (one seat in RY inventory class for me) but the DM phone agent said that my GUC had been closed when the ticket was reissued. She was firmly of the belief that I should be able to get the domestic FC upgrade without using another GUC/RUC and called a supervisor who said it could not be done. Then my wonderful SLC based DM agent decided to take the initiative (I hadn't said much at this point, but I was prepared to point out that I had been told by a DM agent less than two days earlier to do the waitlist this way and only request the domestic upgrade after my long haul international upgrade had cleared) and call someone else, in another area of DL (SkyMiles? This was during the business day), who approved an exception. The FC upgrade for me was confirmed and the ticket immediately reissued again, so all was well this time.

SUGGESTIONS:

However, this incident raises questions about how we should handle instrument supported upgrade waitlist requests in the future. If this is new DL policy, it makes GUCs and to some extent RUCs much less valuable.

In retrospect, I think that if faced by this, perhaps a good way to proceed would be to confirm the domestic upgrade after the long segment clears and pay with miles if needed (assuming that you have spare miles in your DL FF account and that miles can be used to upgrade your fare for the segment in question, where most domestic connecting flights would be OK but something like NRT-SIN would be problematic on some fare classes IIRC) and then argue later to have the miles refunded. I'd be reluctant to use a second GUC/RUC as it seems harder for customer service people at DL to return those after they've been used.

FURTHER COMMENTS:

I must also say that I was shocked that DL reissued the ticket almost instantly during a period when the system was experiencing bad weather IROPs. Usually SOP is that there's a long queue to reissue upgraded tickets, where I let it slide if only DL operated flights are involved until about a week before my outbound travel, then I call to remind DL to reissue the ticket and watch to see that this has been done well before OLCI opens.

In addition, I suspect that the result could have been less favorable to me if it had been the case that I needed to waitlist for the domestic FC upgrade, as then it would have been a matter of an agent taking the time to go beyond contacting a supervisor for some potential hypothetical benefit to me. The fact that the flight did have exactly one upgrade seat available made fixing the problem seem more urgent at that point, which I think was helpful to me.

rylan

Seems to be some conflict in the T&Cs with interpretation by the agent then... which states (with emphasis added) "This certificate is valid for upgraded one-way travel on flights operated by Delta Air Lines, including eligible connecting flights, between the origin and destination of a ticketed fare for the named SkyMiles Member"

Since yours was reissued so fast, I wonder if there is an automated system doing it now if the coding is done properly?

The problem with the scenario is what happens when you have connecting intl flights and are waitlisted for both segments, such as DTW-NRT-PVG? Doesn't make sense that they would clear the NRT-PVG and say the cert is used and can't be applied to the DTW-NRT flight.

I know previously I've had one closed when I had a DTW-NRT segment clear and NRT-SIN was still waitlisted, and I didn't have any problems with it clearing later on its own and getting reissued again. Could be a case of needing to jump through another hoop now? I'm in the same situation currently as I have a tpac booked in a couple months, and am waitlisted on the intl segments and not for domestic...

LoganFlyer

When did this happen? I booked a similar ticket about a month ago, waitlisting the GUC only on the international segment. That cleared about two weeks ago, and the agent applied the same GUC to the domestic segment. That took another couple of days to clear, but it did, and my wallet is only showing one GUC closed.

MSPeconomist

I think the problem was that, as most of us do, I didn't request the eligible connecting flight upgrades at the time I waitlisted the upgrade on the D1 segment. I don't know what would have happened if I had waitlisted both segments at the time of ticket purchase, but the segments cleared at different times. If DL had reissued the ticket as soon as one segment cleared, AFAIK there would have been the same problem. IIRC there's further language in the T&Cs about closed certs being considered to be fully used.

MSPeconomist

It happened at the end of last week.

Ticket purchased Thursday during the business day, D1 upgrade confirmed Saturday very early in the morning at about 2 am ATL time, and me calling DL to extend the upgrade request to the domestic connecting flight around 10 am ATL time on Saturday.

I've done the recommended strategy several times in the past with never a hint of a problem. However, I'm not sure how fast those tickets were reissued, so that previous to this incident, I might have always managed to call to confirm or waitlist the additional segment upgrades before the ticket was reissued and the GUC closed in my account.

DiverDave

I have never seen a reissue that fast. Leave it to Delta to make IT improvements that foul things up for the customer.

If this is the new reality, the only time you can get the GUC/RUC applied to all flights will be if inventory actually is open for all flights when you book them. Which of course happens - never.

And you won't get the GUC/RUC upgrade priority at the gate on segments that didn't clear.

rylan

Going to have to watch this one carefully to see if it is just an agent understanding issue, or a DL IT side effect of a quick reissue, or a combination of both.

MSPeconomist

NO, I suspect that the new reality gives one the following choices when upgrade inventory isn't available at the time of booking for the longest segment:

Waitlist all segments and risk using the GUC to upgrade only a short domestic flight.

Waitlist only the long segment and risk not being able to use the same GUC to upgrade other segments unless you can catch the first upgrade and call to extend the GUC before your ticket is reissued.

I suspect that automatic ticket reissue only occurs when every waitlisted segment on the GUC has cleared.

WidgetTravels

This is interesting.

I'm not currently aware of any policy change.

While the domestic legs may not be waitlisted in the PNR (to avoid burning a GUC on the short leg) until the long segment clears, did the agent put the full origin-destination in the remarks required for the upgrade (hard to know without asking the agent)?

In other words, let's say your itinerary was MSP-JFK-AMS. JFK-AMS is waitlisted, MSP-JFK isn't. The agent has to put in a remark with the GUC certificate, date of travel, and O/D city pairs.

If they put in the city pairs as MSP-AMS, I would think you would still be able to use the same GUC for the MSP-JFK portion.

But if they just put in JFK-AMS as the city pairs, that could be part of the problem.

nichojo

Not sure your case is standard. I booked SYD-LAX-ATL-LAX-SYD and SYD-LAX cleared shortly after booking. One GUC closed and ticket was reissued with LAX-ATL remaining "Upgrade Requested" or wait listed, can't remember. Never cleared though, and we remained 1 and 2 on UG list until door shut.

MSPeconomist

The DM phone agent who sold me the ticket was aware that I planned to add the domestic connecting flight to the GUC upgrade request if/when the D1 segment cleared. In fact, she suggested that I do it this way and I immediately agreed and said that this was the strategy I always used in such cases. However, this is the first time I heard of the need or possibility of the agent adding such a remark and I suspect that there's no way to tell whether this was done.

MSPeconomist

It sounds like your case was different in that you requested both the SYD-LAX and LAX-ATL upgrades at the beginning. If the reverse had happened so that LAX-ATL had cleared but not SYD-LAX, you would have "wasted" a GUC to get just a domestic upgrade.

flyerCO

Was this just one agent saying this? Sounds like a HUACA moment.

MSPeconomist

NO, it was a DM phone agent and at least one supervisor. The DM phone agent thought I should be able to use the GUC to also upgrade the domestic segment and took the initiative to work hard to make it happen for me. She ultimately got me an exception to fix the problem, but I realize that the next time I (or someone else) might not be so lucky.

flyerCO

I've found some of the supervisors they've put in place in last few months know less then the front line.

I had IRROPS on my trip last mont YYZ-SAT. Due to international taxes they had issues reissuing the ticket. (3rd reissue, after 2 previous) Agent had already booked me on flights and gotten me seats. Could not get the manual reissue to work though. A supervisor called me back 2 hours later and told me I couldn't get on the flights I requested. Why? Per supervisor even in IRROPS one must fly a routing the complies with fare rules. The routing they booked me on didn't meet this so she said couldn't be done. Note, this wasn't some stranage DTW-JFK-LAX-SAT type request. The only approved routing wasn't for another 24 hours. Called DL CS, and they confirmed no such change and apologized. Told me they've had issues lately since they hired a number of "online" support supervisors. Apparently they're not really supervisors in the true sense. Rather they're people who are supposed to be able to do more then an average agent. However some are just brand new hires, not promotions from current employees and thus know less about DL then the front line they're supporting.