hiima

Alliant and USAA

gooselee

There are lots of people who spend money is ways others things are ridiculous.

One interesting effect this change might have is to increase EOY MQM sales. Since those purchases count toward MQDs as well, we might even see people who already have 125k+ MQM plunking down cash for MQMs simply to get the extra MQDs they need.

Since those sales are pure profit for DL, it's even more gravy on top if it happens.

1. Rollover isn't irrelevant if you meet the MQD requirement or aren't trying to get to DM.

2. Switching to UA is certainly an option for someone who blindly directs all their travel to an airline of choice based on a marketing program. There are many, many more people who buy based on price/schedule/product, and just end up with status as a side-effect. Granted, most of those folks aren't here on FT, but I'd posit that the smarter FFers out there use loyalty programs as a tiebreaker, not the primary decision factor.

TheMadBrewer

Somebody else up thread said they were going to do all their TATL trips with KLM/AF instead of Delta.

All these have JVs with Delta where they share the profits so you aren't really punishing Delta by switching to these carriers.

MSPeconomist

In some cases, they're punishing themselves because the AF/KLM seats and configurations can be worse than DL (depending on the aircraft type).

jamesteroh

I'm wondering the same thing for everyday spending. On travel and dining you can get 4.5% on all travel related purchases with the Chase saphire providing you use the points on their portal to book travel. With the chase freedom bonus categories you can net 7.5% for travel if you transfer the points to the CSR account and use them for travel but that's limited to $1,500 total spend a quarter. If you have a chase unlimited freedom it's 1.5% back so if you transfer everyday points to the CSR it nets 2.25% in travel.

Other than that the Citi Double 2 percent is the best return I can find on everyday purchases

sdix

I know FT is a small slice of the flying public but my hat’s off to y’all who can make DM with the waiver. My hat’s really off to those with 125K MQM’s. However, I’m now seeing all the tips and tricks to actually making DM.

Per the DM email I am 137K MQM/53 MQS/$19K MQD and $73K on the CC. My 137K MQM’s are hard earned.

All I have to do is buy a ticket and fly.

Doing all the calculations and permutatations of getting to DM without BIS would be just exhausting.

jamesteroh

I thought with Codeshare/alliance flight the other airlines only profited if you booked the travel through the other airlines site and credited the miles to that account (i.e. booking a DTW/CDG flight on Airfrance through Delta.com and crediting skymiles would create revenue for Delta but if I booked directly through AF and credited my flying blue account Delta wouldn't get any revenue).

Regardless Delta would be getting more revenue if I booked on Delta metal instead of a partners metal. But I'm not doing it to punish DL in the DTW/LHR business class case. I'm doing it more to reward myself since Virgin has a better product than Delta on that flight. In the past I always booked on DL metal because if it was personal travel I could use a GU and if it was business travel, even though it wasn't coming out of my own pocket, I was getting the MQM's to help keep me at Diamond. If I don't need the MQMs I'm going to book on the airline with the best product as long as the price is similar.

captiveguru

This change will affect my flying and spending habits immediately.

I will meet the 2018 DM qualification requirements with next week's flights. Was planning more trips on Delta and much more spending on my Business AX Reserve. Projected to earn 30K to 40K rollover MQMs. Should easily earn 125K MQMs in 2018 for 2019, but not likely to spend $15K on Delta or $250K with my 3 AX Reserve cards.

Not waiting until January to change strategies. Have been an AX card holder since 1976, but see no reason to keep it now since there are better cards out there. Likewise, no reason to concentrate flying on Delta. Time to "play the field" and see what Delta's competition has to offer.

Ironically I am now in a position to BF more and more often...

jamesteroh

I know last time I flew DTW/CDG, Delta was using a 747 for that route some days (I loved sitting in the upper deck) where airfrance was using 2-2-2 seating in J with no flatbeds. Even though the food and service would have probably been better on AF, I'd rather have the flatbeds.

Dick Ginkowski

I think in reality this boils down to DM being what it was originally intended to be: a premium elite status for high(er) rollers. The people who will be hurt are those who can't reach 15K MQD and there may be more than a few. The $250K waiver appears bizarre and insulting but probably out there for contractual reasons. It will be interesting to see what the competition does (or doesn't do) but I think Amex may hurt more here than DL and this could strain Amex/DL relationships.

gregsfortytwo

Joint Ventures are not the same as alliances. Delta and AF/KLM, and Delta and Virgin Atlantic, (and soon, Virgin Atlantic and AF/KLM!) have Joint Ventures on transatlantic flights. I don’t know the exact details (not sure it’s public) but they do some degree of joint planning and pooling money over routes they fly from the USA to Europe (and back). That’s why you’ll see some routes where Delta pulls out and Virgin takes over all their slots, or airports where all the groundside operations for one of those airlines are handled by employees of the other.

MSPeconomist

Once again, DL demonstrates that it doesn't play well with others.

MSPeconomist

My understanding is that flights covered by the at least the AF/KLM JV (that AFAIK had its origins in the early PMNW/KLM JV that started the trend) are supposed to be revenue neutral so that neither airline cares which flight you take or how it's booked. OTOH, one frequently sees significant fare differences, so I'm skeptical about how this works in practice.

captaink

Everyone is assuming that Amex wasn't consulted or involved in this decision (I put as much confidence in an Amex phone rep saying "nothing is changing" as I do in the FA claiming that DL is starting MEM-HKG next year). $250k could have been a mutually agreed number that allowed them to maintain current MQD waiver claims, while being sufficiently high to restrict all but the most dedicated MS'ers, who will give Amex $7,500 in merchant fees for their trouble.


Since we don't know the terms of their deal with Amex, it's hard to speculate on the profitability of the cobrand products, but I could certainly see Amex deciding that the current customer mix for the DL Plat/Reserve isn't profitable, and agreeing with the move under the assumption that they can replace no-balance Plat/Reserve cardholders manufacturing spend to get the waiver with Blue-Gold cardholders more likely to carry a balance (and not have to offer the MQM or club access benefits)

mikehillwig

I'm barely traveling these days and there is no indication I'll be flying more in the future. Last night, I downgraded my reserve card to the new Blue card. I was a DM last year, PM this year, and I need to make a mileage run just to hit gold for next year. It's just not worth trying anymore.