Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles
Reload this Page > Help please! Advice re getting transatlantic upgrade with miles on AF/KLM?

Help please! Advice re getting transatlantic upgrade with miles on AF/KLM?

Reply

Old Jun 18, 17, 3:05 pm
  #1
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 59
Help please! Advice re getting transatlantic upgrade with miles on AF/KLM?

Hello all. I need to fly ORD-ABJ (Abidjan, Cote d'Ivoire) late July/early August.

Current flights (Delta numbers plus AF/KLM numbers):

July 29 - July 30

*Flight 8505 Operated by AIR FRANCE As AF Flt 153
*Flight 8574 Operated by AIR FRANCE As AF Flt 702

August 5 - August 6
*Flight 8575 Operated by AIR FRANCE As AF Flt 703
*Flight 8529 Operated by AIR FRANCE As AF Flt 1340
*Flight 9382 Operated by KLM ROYAL DUTCH AIRLINES As KL Flt 611

(OR instead of CDG-AMS-ORD, I could wait 9 hours in Paris and take DL 8494 Operated by Air France 144)

Client will only pay coach but allows upgradable fare. Spent hours on the phone with agents who said I could upgrade with miles on return KLM flight AMS-ORD so I purchased a $5300+ (refundable) ticket; but once he transferred me to SkyMiles they said that upgrade wasn't available, nor was any other Europe-US route available for upgrade with miles. I can use 10,000 miles to upgrade on ABJ-CDG but it seems that only gets me from economy to premium economy, which hardly seems worth it. Do any members of this wonderful community have experience or advice on this? Is it worthwhile to keep calling back and trying for the upgrade with miles? Should I buy the ticket from Air France instead of Delta? I'm told I can't get it on the nonstop from CDG-ORD either (I would if I could, even if it means a 9 hour layover in Paris). Is there a hotel where I can get a day room if I take the CDG-ORD and have that 9 hour layover? I'm Silver medallion on Delta (lifetime gold on United and lifetime platinum on American). All wisdom and advice welcome, thanks, Judy

Last edited by JudyBlueEyes; Jun 18, 17 at 9:35 pm
JudyBlueEyes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 18, 17, 3:57 pm
  #2
C W
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: LON, PDX
Programs: DL PM, AS MVP 75K, HH/SPG/MR Gold, Amex Plat, PRG, CSR
Posts: 1,981
Just because the ticket is upgrade eligible does not mean that there is upgrade inventory, which is often quite limited for mileage upgrades.

Normally KLM should allow Y-J upgrades, if there is upgrade inventory, on YBM fares. Air France also allows upgrades, if there is inventory, on YBM fares but only one class of service, ie Y-W, W-J, not Y-J.

It's not entirely clear what exactly you've booked and how. For us to help you more you should specify your flight numbers in your itinerary it sounds like you booked through Delta?
C W is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 18, 17, 4:04 pm
  #3
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: Delta PM, HHonors Gold; SPG Gold
Posts: 222
Also, I don't want to be "that guy" but your title should say TATL - not transcon. I was confused when I saw it wondering why you were taking a transcon (i.e. NYC-LA) on AF/KLM
plinko83 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 18, 17, 8:26 pm
  #4
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: DL PM, UA 1K, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,555
I see D1 ORD-ABJ flights in your timeframe for $4500. Your client won't pay for that because its business yet they'll pay $5300 for a coach ticket?
TomMM is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 18, 17, 8:57 pm
  #5
C W
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: LON, PDX
Programs: DL PM, AS MVP 75K, HH/SPG/MR Gold, Amex Plat, PRG, CSR
Posts: 1,981
Originally Posted by TomMM View Post
I see D1 ORD-ABJ flights in your timeframe for $4500. Your client won't pay for that because its business yet they'll pay $5300 for a coach ticket?
I was wondering what the business fare would be, thanks for posting it.

Seems like it would be a better deal for everybody to just get the $4500 business fare and refund the $5300 ticket. This is unless the project or the client requires a flexible ticket.
C W is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 18, 17, 9:11 pm
  #6
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 69,100
If an airline agent told you to buy a FULL Y fare, they're probably thinking about the SkyTeam upgrade awards, not the slightly better terms of upgrades with miles across DL/AF/KLM.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 18, 17, 9:17 pm
  #7
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 59
Thanks to those of you who responded

I'm grateful for the correction (of course I meant trans-Atlantic, not transcon -
apologies). I've edited the initial post to show the specific flights. I don't know if I can get appproval for buying a business class ticket even if it's cheaper - but one idea, if I understand correctly, is to submit reimbursement for the economy class ticket but then get it refunded, and pay for the business class one myself without submitting it? Clever! The only problem is that the economy one I bought fir $5300 is refundable, while the business one at $4500+ is changeable but not refundable, so if the trip doesn't happen (violence in the country would cancel the workshop I'm leading, for example), I'd be stuck paying anyway, correct? All other advice welcome. Many thanks, I benefit so much from the wisdom of this community. Judy

Last edited by JudyBlueEyes; Jun 18, 17 at 9:48 pm
JudyBlueEyes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 18, 17, 9:39 pm
  #8
used to be 'jrl22'
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Back home in the REAL Washington (SEA); still working occasionally in the other Washington (IAD area) and near LAX
Programs: DL PM 1.2MM; AS MVPG
Posts: 9,608
Originally Posted by JudyBlueEyes View Post
... one idea, if I understand correctly, is to submit reimbursement for the economy class ticket but then get it refunded, and pay for the business class one myself without submitting it?
there are lots of threads with lots of back-and-forth from lots of people (few of whom admit to being in either the legal or accounting professions) about the ethics of doing this ... while the likelihood of anyone having issues on a one-time basis is probably very small, audits can lead to very uncomfortable situations for individuals and corporations and government organizations
jrl767 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 18, 17, 9:45 pm
  #9
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 69,100
If you buy a ticket for reimbursement and then change it to a cheaper ticket while still requesting reimbursement for the more expensive ticket, this could lead to big trouble because you would be getting reimbursed for more than you actually paid. I definitely wouldn't do this even once.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 18, 17, 9:58 pm
  #10
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 59
could someone clarify this difference please?

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
If an airline agent told you to buy a FULL Y fare, they're probably thinking about the SkyTeam upgrade awards, not the slightly better terms of upgrades with miles across DL/AF/KLM.
What is the difference between SkyTeam upgrade awards and upgrading with my miles?
JudyBlueEyes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 18, 17, 10:01 pm
  #11
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 59
right, I don't want to do this

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
If you buy a ticket for reimbursement and then change it to a cheaper ticket while still requesting reimbursement for the more expensive ticket, this could lead to big trouble because you would be getting reimbursed for more than you actually paid. I definitely wouldn't do this even once.
I'm not happy with the idea of tricking the client into paying more than the ticket actually costs - ie submitting the higher Y fare for reimbursement and getting it refunded, making a profit when buying a business class fare that's cheaper than Y. Plus the refundable business class fares are far more expensive than the nonrefundable ($4500) fare, so buying the nonrefundable business ticket doesn't solve my need to be able to cancel the flights without being stuck with the charge.
JudyBlueEyes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19, 17, 2:02 am
  #12
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL GM, SPG plat, Amex Plat, Marriott, Avis Preferred
Posts: 4,985
how much more is the refundable biz ticket than the refundable coach ticket? If it's $1k will you spend it?

Also, if there is something like violence in the country, chances are decent that delta would refund even a no refundable ticket.

Could you ask the client if you could buy a coach ticket and then You pay to upgrade yourself and if it happens to be cheaper you will pay them back the difference? Might work.
Of course if they are paying for you to have a refundable ticket you'd have to take the loss if you needed to cancel, not them.
jdrtravel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19, 17, 6:16 am
  #13
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: DL PM, UA 1K, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,555
Originally Posted by jdrtravel View Post
how much more is the refundable biz ticket than the refundable coach ticket? If it's $1k will you spend it?
A refundable ticket is around $8500.
TomMM is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19, 17, 6:55 am
  #14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 31,982
Originally Posted by JudyBlueEyes View Post
I'm not happy with the idea of tricking the client into paying more than the ticket actually costs - ie submitting the higher Y fare for reimbursement and getting it refunded, making a profit when buying a business class fare that's cheaper than Y. Plus the refundable business class fares are far more expensive than the nonrefundable ($4500) fare, so buying the nonrefundable business ticket doesn't solve my need to be able to cancel the flights without being stuck with the charge.
It is not "tricking." It is plain and simple wire fraud and may also result in tax evasion or filing a false income tax return if you later fail to report the differential as income.

You should seek the advice of an attorney before doing this. Or you could read about the NBA refs who did this wound up in federal prison for this.

Besides this, if the client does not want this to happen and it does and it learns of it through any number of channels, you lose the client.

This is a better question to the client's A/P people as to what the client would consider acceptable behavior. If the client is OK with the purchase of the Y ticket and you then upgrading, might the client consider simply reimbursing you the Y fare, leaving you to pay any difference.

If there is a cheaper J than Y fare, it likely has to do with flexibility. Thus, make sure that any Y-to-J comparison is apples-to-apples.
Often1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
 


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:37 pm.

Home - News - Forum - Hotel Reviews - Glossary - Contact Us - Airport Code Lookup - Terms of Use - Privacy Policy - Cookie Policy - Advertise on FlyerTalk - Archive - Top

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by Flyertalk.com. Copyright 2017 FlyerTalk.com. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.