Erasmus

As a self-described "newbie", I would say your upgrade expectations are unrealistic--on pretty much any airline. If you're flying consultant routes at consultant times, you will be behind many DMs and 360s.

And status matching to AA won't help: you'll be behind CKs and EXPs with a higher annual spend.

The days of near 100% upgrades for anyone who doesn't have complete schedule flexibility has passed.

azeckel

I'm not familiar with PHX-JFK or PHX-ATL, but I also assume that >50% upgrade rate on this route on Mon Morning/Thurs-Fri Evening is unrealistic. Anything in/out of ATL you're probably going to have be a DM on a high fare ticket to sniff an upgrade during those times. If you want to fly CMH - LGA on Tuesday afternoon, you would probably hit a much higher %.

I'm surprised no one has really chimed in with the idea that you could be better off just buying the FC seats and choosing the airline based on price.

icebeam

I will go for Diamond then. I could have that in 60 days or less. Then maybe I will get 360. I'm flying east to west every week and each time it's about $1,000 a pop. That Means Delta is making $50k plus alone on that and I do some international. Thats a lot of $$$ for them.

Erasmus

Do you think that makes you special? $50K isn't going to get you 360 (or CK on AA) out of a major market. There are lots of people just like you on the upgrade list for those flights. If you're flying to a major west coast market out of JFK or ATL at consultant hours: WFBF.

MSPeconomist

How did we go from GM/PM to 360 in just eighteen posts?

Spending $50K on tickets doesn't mean that DL is "making $50k." Like other companies, airlines have costs and do not make 100% profit.

Just as PM isn't top tier, $50K isn't a lot of money for DL.

IMO the OP needs to rethink expectations and be more realistic about travel in the new job.

icebeam

Compared to the once a year flyer... yes. Compared to a million miler... no.

The sad part is I get what the airlines are doing. It's the perfect game! Lets just signal to the industry that we are selling 1st class seats and others should do the same. Then when we hit >90% of seats sold people won't be loyal to an airline. But who cares as others will feel the same way for AA, United, Etc, then we will all have the same amount of business flyers as before, as people will just start flying the best non-stop/time on any airline of their choice as this will be more important than faster accrual of miles to most people. (so in short they will lose some customers but gain new ones to make up for the loss)

Thus they win again not having to pay out the 20%+ bonus on SkyMiles to status members. Hey they have 1000's of flight a day and if they can just make $20 for each first class seat thats a lot of shareholder wealth, I get it.

They say we have choice, I don't. Other than switching jobs. I can only book coach and so can our VP's and I work for a fortune >50 company. Yes, it seems I missed the "golden age" of upgrades. Basically its just another example of a company &**@&& over customers on behalf of ROI for shareholders. Its the right move, I get it. If I was on their BOD, I would tell the CEO to do the same thing, it just *@*@&@& sucks and I'm sure a lot of others feel the same way.

I mean if airlines had it their way it would be like a flying subway (everyone standing) but the FAA won't have that... yet.

icebeam

You might be right about the more realistic expectations but amex spend bonus is a wonderful thing. 30k MQMs to go from GM to PM.

Mr. Tickets

Don't hold your breath on 360. You have no idea what "big spend" is. Your not even close.

mnbp

But, on the other hand, 360 does somewhat depend on which city one is based in.

Or so it has been implied on FT - so it must be true!

DLMiddleSeats

The last 360 skymiles account I looked at the person flew full J fares from the US to HKG RT twice every 3 weeks. He had over 500k MQMs that year, and it was still October or so.

I have no clue however if they were top of the mountain 360, or barely made it...or anywhere in between for that matter.

From speaking to many of my accounts, I have people who are DM yelling at me that the never get upgrades...check accounts and it' M morning out, Th afternoon back...consultant o clock.

I have other accounts that I've had glowing reports about how often their FO, GM's are upgraded. Tuesday afternoons 3rd tier cities.

And from what I hear it's the same on everyone else. Some people do great other not so much

denverhockeyguy

You're going to be very disappointed. The NYC (JFK) routes are huge for Delta and it feeds a lot of international travel. My experience is that DL really holds back upgrades back for those flights. Also because of INTL connections, you get a lot more paid-F as it connects to INTL business.

As a random datapoint, I have a DEN-JFK flight for an international connection on Saturday. As a DM, using a certificate for upgrade and 5 F seats for sale, I still haven't cleared. I suspect I will, but it won't be until the gate...

bj27

As a DM last year flying transcons, I barely made 35% on upgrade on 150 flights (I also suspect the large majority of my UGs were on shorter regional hops). This is also including me using 6 UG certificates.

As a data point I flew mostly eastbound on Sundays and westbound on Thursdays/Fridays.

Like many other posters have mentioned, >50% UG even for a DM during elite-heavy travel times will be rare.

JohnnyRockets

I kinda disagree about the perfect game part. I see it as a zero-sum game for airlines. It is also a clear oligopoly case. Price wars leads to no-win situation. At the end of the day customer would still factor in some $ to miles/benefits and FFP can help lower acquisition cost for the airline (giving monopoly money with some $ amount below face value). So an airline should be better off giving the 20% more monopoly money to sell the seat. Remember, the company is paying for the ticket you are getting miles as a bonus. So would you rather have a larger or smaller bonus. The even more sad part is for bigger companies, the 'gate-keepers' are the ones who gets pampered by the airline not the employees flying (thus, giving you no choice but to change jobs). Other companies don't care if you book $800 on DL compare to $49 on Spirit as long as it's in coach, which one would you fly.

Sadly, I doubt that VP these days are that senior.

And a data point for you, I flew PHX-JFK few times as PM, odds are not that bad for non consultant hours.