Checking bags with KL through to SEA via YVR - never any good
May 14, 2017, 5:26 pm
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Checking bags with KL through to SEA via YVR - never any good
Three months ago, travelling back from CPT via AMS and YVR, my wife and I waited two hours at the CPT check-in counter attempting to get our bags successfully checked through to SEA. After much finagling, phone calls and reticketing, the result was to change our final YVR – SEA connection segment from DL 5803 operated by Compass to DL 4837 operated by Skywest. The KLM agent in CPT was then able to successfully check our bags through.
Starting this morning in CPH, my wife and I went to check our bags via the Sky Priority lane at the KLM Copenhagen counter. We arrived at the counter to speak with an agent at 0740. We did not leave the counter until 0910.
Learning from our recent experience flying back from CPT (of which the entire itinerary starting and ending in SEA was booked by Delta), I booked DL 4837 operated by Skywest to get us back to SEA from YVR. To our surprise, the CPH agent could not “see” the Skywest flight. The last time it was the Compass flight that could not be “seen” and now Skywest. Clearly we had not helped ourselves there.
Through the process of linking our flights together (all my three tickets for two checked bags: CPH – AMS <DL Stock> + AMS – YVR <AF Stock> + YVR – SEA <DL Stock>), the agent informed me that my name had become Sara (my wife’s name). This then threw everything into chaos. The agents worked the issue for about 45 minutes making multiple calls and then decided they needed to escalate and call someone in Amsterdam. Another 35 minutes and a return phone call later, the agent informed me that he could write up manual bag tags once he confirmed all our connecting flights had enough time in between. Another 10 minutes went by and our bags were finally tagged.
This senior agent informed me that we needed to check with each plane to ensure our bags were loaded. He also informed me that since I had pre-printed our boarding passes before arriving that we would probably be OK, but that the bags were officially only checked to AMS.
We made it to AMS and went to board there. Good news, the bags were loaded. I had apparently been checked out of the flight, so the desk agent there spent a few minutes and checked me back in. My wife, Sara had been canceled out of her AMS – YVR business-class segment entirely. Another passenger had actually managed to grab that seat somehow, so KLM had to work on arranging another seat for that person. After 20 minutes of finagling, Sara’s ticket was reinstated and we boarded.
Upon working our way through US Customs and baggage transfer at YVR, of course the manual tags could not be read properly by the scanning machines, so the two checked bags were routed to the international claim. We waited over 60 minutes in the holding area for the bags to be retrieved and sent for imaging and routed correctly to DL 4837.
In total, my wife and I spent around 3 extraordinary hours each of wasted time on our return today: 1) at the CPH check-in counter, 2) at the AMS boarding gate and 3) in YVR US Customs baggage holding.
Delta and KLM need to work out whatever issues there may be checking bags through. Your customers’ time is valuable. During our experience at CPT, I actually called Delta to see if there were any steps that could be taken to correct that situation and one the agents I spoke with insinuated that we should have booked different itineraries starting our international travel from SEA instead of YVR or YYC. If we wanted to spend two or three times the price for our business class tickets that would have worked out just fine, but spending $8,000+ per ticket is not a written requirement of a successful bag check procedure.
Skyteam Alliance messaging and remarks from Delta agents say that baggage transfers between member airlines are supposed to be seamless. Indeed, this seems to be the case getting our bags from the US to our foreign destination, but not so on the way back. Twice in three months, our return baggage has been extremely difficult to check through all the way back to SEA.
Perhaps Delta and KLM to not understand the issue at hand or perhaps they have stopped trying to make it work. Maybe the Compass and Skywest flights need KL and AF codeshare flight numbers. I’m not sure, but whatever the case, the service we’ve received is not what any passenger should expect or have to endure to get their bags back home.
This final leg between YVR and SEA is always the issue. Delta and KLM, please fix it now before anyone else has to suffer through this experience again. Don’t blame Amadeus or any other software for the problems. This is 2017. Work it out. Your customers do not want to claim bags in Canada and deal with that insanity when there is a US Customs and baggage process built in.
Starting this morning in CPH, my wife and I went to check our bags via the Sky Priority lane at the KLM Copenhagen counter. We arrived at the counter to speak with an agent at 0740. We did not leave the counter until 0910.
Learning from our recent experience flying back from CPT (of which the entire itinerary starting and ending in SEA was booked by Delta), I booked DL 4837 operated by Skywest to get us back to SEA from YVR. To our surprise, the CPH agent could not “see” the Skywest flight. The last time it was the Compass flight that could not be “seen” and now Skywest. Clearly we had not helped ourselves there.
Through the process of linking our flights together (all my three tickets for two checked bags: CPH – AMS <DL Stock> + AMS – YVR <AF Stock> + YVR – SEA <DL Stock>), the agent informed me that my name had become Sara (my wife’s name). This then threw everything into chaos. The agents worked the issue for about 45 minutes making multiple calls and then decided they needed to escalate and call someone in Amsterdam. Another 35 minutes and a return phone call later, the agent informed me that he could write up manual bag tags once he confirmed all our connecting flights had enough time in between. Another 10 minutes went by and our bags were finally tagged.
This senior agent informed me that we needed to check with each plane to ensure our bags were loaded. He also informed me that since I had pre-printed our boarding passes before arriving that we would probably be OK, but that the bags were officially only checked to AMS.
We made it to AMS and went to board there. Good news, the bags were loaded. I had apparently been checked out of the flight, so the desk agent there spent a few minutes and checked me back in. My wife, Sara had been canceled out of her AMS – YVR business-class segment entirely. Another passenger had actually managed to grab that seat somehow, so KLM had to work on arranging another seat for that person. After 20 minutes of finagling, Sara’s ticket was reinstated and we boarded.
Upon working our way through US Customs and baggage transfer at YVR, of course the manual tags could not be read properly by the scanning machines, so the two checked bags were routed to the international claim. We waited over 60 minutes in the holding area for the bags to be retrieved and sent for imaging and routed correctly to DL 4837.
In total, my wife and I spent around 3 extraordinary hours each of wasted time on our return today: 1) at the CPH check-in counter, 2) at the AMS boarding gate and 3) in YVR US Customs baggage holding.
Delta and KLM need to work out whatever issues there may be checking bags through. Your customers’ time is valuable. During our experience at CPT, I actually called Delta to see if there were any steps that could be taken to correct that situation and one the agents I spoke with insinuated that we should have booked different itineraries starting our international travel from SEA instead of YVR or YYC. If we wanted to spend two or three times the price for our business class tickets that would have worked out just fine, but spending $8,000+ per ticket is not a written requirement of a successful bag check procedure.
Skyteam Alliance messaging and remarks from Delta agents say that baggage transfers between member airlines are supposed to be seamless. Indeed, this seems to be the case getting our bags from the US to our foreign destination, but not so on the way back. Twice in three months, our return baggage has been extremely difficult to check through all the way back to SEA.
Perhaps Delta and KLM to not understand the issue at hand or perhaps they have stopped trying to make it work. Maybe the Compass and Skywest flights need KL and AF codeshare flight numbers. I’m not sure, but whatever the case, the service we’ve received is not what any passenger should expect or have to endure to get their bags back home.
This final leg between YVR and SEA is always the issue. Delta and KLM, please fix it now before anyone else has to suffer through this experience again. Don’t blame Amadeus or any other software for the problems. This is 2017. Work it out. Your customers do not want to claim bags in Canada and deal with that insanity when there is a US Customs and baggage process built in.
Last edited by Seattlite; May 15, 2017 at 11:04 am
May 14, 2017, 5:42 pm
#2
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May 14, 2017, 5:45 pm
#3
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It is seamless when on one ticket. You bought not two, but three tickets and the fact airlines were willing to even do this is above service today. There's no requirement in ST that on separate tickets bags be through checked. You bought two separate tickets to save money, you run the risk of issues.Even separate tickets on the same airline doesn't mean they'll through check.
Now I agree it is a frustrating process. What is the timing you're leaving between tickets? If it's not enough the agent might not be shown the flight because it doesn't meet MCT for what KLM system believe is needed at YVR. YVR is the one airport in Canada you can go international to transborder without clearing CBSA. Thus there systems may be setup to assume like at YYZ you need to clear CBSA and enter Canada. It's not going to show a flight that doesn't meet KLM MCT in YVR.
Basically how much time did you allow between tickets at YVR.
Now I agree it is a frustrating process. What is the timing you're leaving between tickets? If it's not enough the agent might not be shown the flight because it doesn't meet MCT for what KLM system believe is needed at YVR. YVR is the one airport in Canada you can go international to transborder without clearing CBSA. Thus there systems may be setup to assume like at YYZ you need to clear CBSA and enter Canada. It's not going to show a flight that doesn't meet KLM MCT in YVR.
Basically how much time did you allow between tickets at YVR.
May 14, 2017, 5:46 pm
#4
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"governed by individual commercial and/or bilateral agreements between the members," in this case means that since DL and KL have these bi-lateral agreements, there should be no issue. How do you explain no issues getting bags seamlessly from SEA to CPT or SIN, both transfers starting with DL then moving on to KL flights, but not on the return? You don't.
May 14, 2017, 5:48 pm
#5
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It is seamless when on one ticket. You bought not two, but three tickets and the fact airlines were willing to even do this is above service today. There's no requirement in ST that on separate tickets bags be through checked. You bought two separate tickets to save money, you run the risk of issues.Even separate tickets on the same airline doesn't mean they'll through check.
Now I agree it is a frustrating process. What is the timing you're leaving between tickets? If it's not enough the agent might not be shown the flight because it doesn't meet MCT for what KLM system believe is needed at YVR. YVR is the one airport in Canada you can go international to transborder without clearing CBSA. Thus there systems may be setup to assume like at YYZ you need to clear CBSA and enter Canada. It's not going to show a flight that doesn't meet KLM MCT in YVR.
Basically how much time did you allow between tickets at YVR.
Now I agree it is a frustrating process. What is the timing you're leaving between tickets? If it's not enough the agent might not be shown the flight because it doesn't meet MCT for what KLM system believe is needed at YVR. YVR is the one airport in Canada you can go international to transborder without clearing CBSA. Thus there systems may be setup to assume like at YYZ you need to clear CBSA and enter Canada. It's not going to show a flight that doesn't meet KLM MCT in YVR.
Basically how much time did you allow between tickets at YVR.
May 14, 2017, 5:49 pm
#6
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"governed by individual commercial and/or bilateral agreements between the members," in this case means that since DL and KL have these bi-lateral agreements, there should be no issue. How do you explain no issues getting bags seamlessly from SEA to CPT or SIN, both transfers starting with DL then moving on to KL flights, but not on the return? You don't.
May 14, 2017, 5:56 pm
#7
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I don't buy it. We live in 2017. Airlines use software designed decades ago and their systems fail to communicate well enough. Some of them make billions a year in profit, yet pax still have to struggle through this nonsense. Checking bags should be idiot-proof for everyone involved, especially the agents.
Why did my wife's ticket get canceled by KL? Why did my name become hers? Something is very wrong.
May 14, 2017, 6:10 pm
#8
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And is it so different that we can successfully check through bags from CPT via AMS and YVR to SEA in February and then not check through from CPH via AMR and YVR to SEA in May on the same YVR - SEA flight?
I don't buy it. We live in 2017. Airlines use software designed decades ago and their systems fail to communicate well enough. Some of them make billions a year in profit, yet pax still have to struggle through this nonsense. Checking bags should be idiot-proof for everyone involved, especially the agents.
Why did my wife's ticket get canceled by KL? Why did my name become hers? Something is very wrong.
I don't buy it. We live in 2017. Airlines use software designed decades ago and their systems fail to communicate well enough. Some of them make billions a year in profit, yet pax still have to struggle through this nonsense. Checking bags should be idiot-proof for everyone involved, especially the agents.
Why did my wife's ticket get canceled by KL? Why did my name become hers? Something is very wrong.
However this is why airlines, even in the same Alliance and for most even on the same airline no longer check bags on separate tickets. All your gripping is going to do is ensure they stop doing it. Your purposefully booked three separate tickets. You know the risks from previous experience. However did it again. I do the same, most times it works. However when it doesn't there's no one to blame but yourself. If you wanted through checked baggage to work should be booked one to let and paid what the airlines wanted.
BTW have you tried pricing it out as a broken fare, but on one ticket?
May 14, 2017, 6:16 pm
#9
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Sound like the issue with her reservation were do to trying to fix it. Either caused a duplicate booking that the system caught or the reservation was cancelled when trying to fix the name issue.
However this is why airlines, even in the same Alliance and for most even on the same airline no longer check bags on separate tickets. All your gripping is going to do is ensure they stop doing it. Your purposefully booked three separate tickets. You know the risks from previous experience. However did it again. I do the same, most times it works. However when it doesn't there's no one to blame but yourself. If you wanted through checked baggage to work should be booked one to let and paid what the airlines wanted.
BTW have you tried pricing it out as a broken fare, but on one ticket?
However this is why airlines, even in the same Alliance and for most even on the same airline no longer check bags on separate tickets. All your gripping is going to do is ensure they stop doing it. Your purposefully booked three separate tickets. You know the risks from previous experience. However did it again. I do the same, most times it works. However when it doesn't there's no one to blame but yourself. If you wanted through checked baggage to work should be booked one to let and paid what the airlines wanted.
BTW have you tried pricing it out as a broken fare, but on one ticket?
You must not live in SEA. Booking biz fares is painful (to the wallet) except when there are sales (which are only to Asia). There is no booking magic.
Many DL agents who are surprised at the fares available from YVR, YYC, etc. to the same destinations I can book from SEA on the same metal for 25% of the price. Again, with bi-lateral baggage agreements in place, why is it such a chore? Should not be.
May 14, 2017, 6:26 pm
#10
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the bi-lateral baggage agreements are in place to cover single tickets. You already know this and obviously aren't going to accept any answer based in the current reality of how things are set up. We all know that things SHOULD work one way but in practical terms the fact is they are set up to work another way. Nothing anyone is going to say here will satisfy you.
May 14, 2017, 8:48 pm
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Be careful what you wish for in this case. Delta has stopped interlining bags across separate tickets for nearly every other carrier, because they couldn't guarantee a good customer experience. If they get too much negative feedback, this option will simply go away for the few remaining partners (KL, AM and a few others) as well...
May 14, 2017, 8:49 pm
#12
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We will agree to disagree, but when airlines advertise that they have bi-lateral baggage agreements that allow things to work and things work one direction, or one time and not another, something is obviously wrong.
You must not live in SEA. Booking biz fares is painful (to the wallet) except when there are sales (which are only to Asia). There is no booking magic.
Many DL agents who are surprised at the fares available from YVR, YYC, etc. to the same destinations I can book from SEA on the same metal for 25% of the price. Again, with bi-lateral baggage agreements in place, why is it such a chore? Should not be.
You must not live in SEA. Booking biz fares is painful (to the wallet) except when there are sales (which are only to Asia). There is no booking magic.
Many DL agents who are surprised at the fares available from YVR, YYC, etc. to the same destinations I can book from SEA on the same metal for 25% of the price. Again, with bi-lateral baggage agreements in place, why is it such a chore? Should not be.
May 15, 2017, 5:19 am
#13
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In OP's defense; lately even with one ticket KL seems to have trouble seeing flights in Delta territory and is unable to provide you with BP and/or check your luggage through.
1st time from DUS: KL agent was only able to send my luggage through ATL, no further.
2nd time: BRU, only through MSP but no further. KL agent there told me she had troubles all morning with pax connecting to Delta and i was not the first one. She called her Delta colleague 50 meter further and he was able to provide her with the necessary booking info.
US-EU: no problems
1st time from DUS: KL agent was only able to send my luggage through ATL, no further.
2nd time: BRU, only through MSP but no further. KL agent there told me she had troubles all morning with pax connecting to Delta and i was not the first one. She called her Delta colleague 50 meter further and he was able to provide her with the necessary booking info.
US-EU: no problems
Last edited by Grouchy; May 15, 2017 at 5:29 am
May 15, 2017, 6:13 am
#14
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I am not sure from this early wave of posts to the OPs problem whether there is a feeling here that (a) this is a case where he is not following the rules and asking for too much of a favor or (b) he was barely inside the rules, but shouldn't expect a twice-removed KLM station to figure it out.
Thirty years ago there was no issue. You showed your seperate onward ticket when you checked in. The agent filled out a hand-printed luggage tag for unusual itineraries after looking up the MCTs in the Official Airline Guide and you were good to go. Nowadays you stand in silence and see what the computer system comes up with. And then start talking your way through any IT and/or rules-smithing issues. The OP wisely left some good blocks of time along the route to do that and in the end got through.
I also notice that often when someone here says that Skyteam should be seamless, a group of posters comes in and says why it isn't seamless (I agree) but then go on to say that it really shouldn't be expected to be seamless (I don't agree). I think glitchy stuff like the OP encountered should be cleaned up by the airlines involved because Skyteam should be as seamless as it can be. An agent in a place like Copenhagen should be trained to realize that the entire trip is on Skyteam and to make it work, or to call over a supervisor who can make it work.
Also thanks to the OP for reminding us to check Canada connections on TATL travel in Business -- caveat emptor.
Thirty years ago there was no issue. You showed your seperate onward ticket when you checked in. The agent filled out a hand-printed luggage tag for unusual itineraries after looking up the MCTs in the Official Airline Guide and you were good to go. Nowadays you stand in silence and see what the computer system comes up with. And then start talking your way through any IT and/or rules-smithing issues. The OP wisely left some good blocks of time along the route to do that and in the end got through.
I also notice that often when someone here says that Skyteam should be seamless, a group of posters comes in and says why it isn't seamless (I agree) but then go on to say that it really shouldn't be expected to be seamless (I don't agree). I think glitchy stuff like the OP encountered should be cleaned up by the airlines involved because Skyteam should be as seamless as it can be. An agent in a place like Copenhagen should be trained to realize that the entire trip is on Skyteam and to make it work, or to call over a supervisor who can make it work.
Also thanks to the OP for reminding us to check Canada connections on TATL travel in Business -- caveat emptor.
May 15, 2017, 6:26 am
#15
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Airlines were also running bankrupt operations back then and in terms of today's money, tickets cost more.
No one suggest shouldn't have a seamless situation when on one ticket. However here OP had, not one, but three different tickets. They knew what they were doing to save money, but chose to do it. Again, I've done the same. However tthose systems that allow the company to save money on training staff and ensure compliance with security rules can only do so much. Why should the company have to pay to make it so you can get around their pricing and get same service? Here OP had an option to get seamless service but chose not to take it to save money. The seamless service wasn't worth the cost.
BTW this may have been able to be ticketed on one ticket but with broken fares.
Bottom line OP went around the process that was seamless to save money. Now OP is mad because he suffered issues because of it.
No one suggest shouldn't have a seamless situation when on one ticket. However here OP had, not one, but three different tickets. They knew what they were doing to save money, but chose to do it. Again, I've done the same. However tthose systems that allow the company to save money on training staff and ensure compliance with security rules can only do so much. Why should the company have to pay to make it so you can get around their pricing and get same service? Here OP had an option to get seamless service but chose not to take it to save money. The seamless service wasn't worth the cost.
BTW this may have been able to be ticketed on one ticket but with broken fares.
Bottom line OP went around the process that was seamless to save money. Now OP is mad because he suffered issues because of it.