jrkmsp

Here's the FAA waiver request for the A350, from last year.

https://www.regulations.gov/contentStreamer?documentId=FAA-2016-7400-0004&attachmentNumber=1&contentType=pdf

32J, 48W, 226Y for a total of 306 passengers, the new largest plane in the fleet.

I dont know what A350 layouts look like well enough to accurately predict how it breaks down, but my guess would be eight rows of J in 1-2-1, six rows of W in 2-4-2, and then somewhere around 26 rows of Y in 3-3-3, with the last some in a tighter configuration.

turkeyRIOO

I am not saying it is not safe, but the whole Delta premise of going to 28J is to improve safety in J cabin but making no corresponding improvement in safety to the Y cabin.

C W

This is completely missing the forest for the trees. The entire discussion of safety in the filing is to receive relief from the rule that bans doors between passengers and exits. Delta is justifying, in a regulatory sense, why they can have doors and still safely evacuate the J cabin. It has absolutely nothing to do with Y safety or reducing J to 28 pax for safety reasons. They've reduced J because that's the configuration they've chosen from a revenue management standpoint and now the lawyers are making sure the government authorizes it.

3Cforme

The quality of thinking behind that is really dismaying.

We all live with choices every day that are assessed as 'safe enough.' Taking a ride in somebody's 15-year old car that doesn't have a stability control system + side curtain airbags. Getting a flu shot. Getting cosmetic surgery.
Moving to cross a street when the oncoming car 100 yards away has a red light but hasn't yet come to a full stop...

There are experts with deep, deep knowledge whose job is to evaluate aircraft safety. Boeing's type certificate for the 777-200LR cites max passenger capacity at 440. Let's do that again: 440 vs. the OP's declaration of 296. I think Delta's proposed config will be safe enough in all cabins. The FAA wouldn't let Delta fly it otherwise.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/8bff0e63469dd8eb862580190055ffa6/$FILE/T00001SE_Rev40.pdf

rylan

I think the bigger point that is being missed here and only mentioned I think by one post, is that you can kiss your chances goodbye of using a GUC to clear into J. Do you actually think there will be any advance upgrade space?

By killing C+ they are making all pax pay a significant premium for W, or have DMs use a precious GUC for those seats. Overall this is not a good situation for frequent flyers. Basically the GUC now becomes an upgrade tool for getting from a horrid C- sardine seat to domestic F, whereas it used to be from C+ to lie-flat J.

MSPeconomist

This is an enormous disenhancement to the value of DM status.

SDQBound

AF also has 28J on the most recently configured 772.

hockeyinsider

Isn't that the point -- force those "upgrading" with miles or certificates into premium economy while keeping enough business-class seats for paying passengers? Seems perfectly logical to me.

I paid $7,000 to fly Delta's 747 business-class from DTW to NRT recently. My colleague did as well. I'm sure there are plenty of others willing to pay because of corporate expense accounts/billable clients.

If anything, it makes Delta's business-class more exclusive, which is what Delta wants.

rylan

Not sure how it makes it exclusive... you're still on a tube with ~300 other pax.
All it does is likely pushes the pricing up higher, while the rest get to fight over the W seats.

SeaHawg

Exactly! Contrast that with the upgradeability of the 60-seat J United flies on the 777-300.

Of course, that seatmap looks horrid- like sardines up front.

Wouldn't this affect NRSA pax more, though? GUC upgrades would still likely clear at the gate for DMs, but I agree. If I'm flying up front, and I know in advance, there is a different routine than if it's a gate/battlefield upgrade scenario.

pvn

Some GUC upgrades will still clear, but on the margin, it will be fewer. There's no way around it. Yes, NSRA will be affected more, but DMs using GUCs are going to get bit by this, and quite a bit.

jrkmsp

This is the number one reason I posted this.

ijgordon

Well, if everyone in the J cabin paid $7,000, then people in the J cabin can have nice things!

NotHamSarnie

Yes, and that's why I fly DL: good chance of "leisure" business fares or relatively good GUC usage. If that is no longer possible, I'll join the sardines at UA! No question there for me - I won't pay $7k for J and I won't fly TATL or TPAC in steerage, haven't done for years.

hockeyinsider

What Delta could do here is allow your global upgrade certificate to clear into premium-economy and then waitlist for business-class, depending on availability. That's the fair thing to do. Unfortunately, they've stated that once your global upgrade certificate clears into premium-economy it cannot further upgrade you into business-class, even if there's an empty seat.

Additionally, someone flying premium-economy between Detroit-Tokyo should get a seat in business-class/domestic first-class for intra-Asia flights, like Tokyo-Guam, Tokyo-Singapore or Tokyo-Manila, if there are seats.