Is ATL too much of a hub ?

Old Apr 6, 17, 5:46 pm
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Is ATL too much of a hub ?

Possibly the benefits of the DL world so centralized in ATL are worth issues like we are currently experiencing and have numerous other times. Or would a bit of dispersing out more through MSP, DTW, and elsewhere be a good thing to lessen the near single point of failure that is ATL?
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Old Apr 6, 17, 5:48 pm
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Old Apr 6, 17, 5:50 pm
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On the flip side, centralizing in ATL means fewer issues farther away than if ops were spread out. PNW region was relatively unaffected today.
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Old Apr 6, 17, 5:50 pm
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Originally Posted by JSFox View Post
Possibly the benefits of the DL world so centralized in ATL are worth issues like we are currently experiencing and have numerous other times. Or would a bit of dispersing out more through MSP, DTW, and elsewhere be a good thing to lessen the near single point of failure that is ATL?
Each of the big three have a central mega-hub. DFW for AA, ORD for UA, and ATL for DL.

Delta couldn't really spread things out much more. The last two days have been disastrous, but DL is on the average much better at dealing with these sorts of meltdowns than the other two. ORD is a disaster year-round, and DFW tends to see higher intensity thunderstorms. Today was an anomalous perfect storm.
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Old Apr 6, 17, 5:54 pm
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NWA was nearly evenly split between MSP & DTW with spare capacity at each. There were certainly IRROPS but I don't remember any quite as impacting as those we've seen recently with ATL.

With the merger they did move a number of connecting pairs from MSP to ATL. That does provide some more efficiency with some connections but also creates some longer legs and creates much bigger IRROPS problems.

Last edited by JSFox; Apr 6, 17 at 6:00 pm
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Old Apr 6, 17, 5:55 pm
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From an apology by the COO:

Roughly 60 percent of our 1,250 aircraft fleet cycles through Atlanta on any given day as they arrive from and depart to destinations around the globe. But when weather like we experienced Wednesday hits Atlanta, the resulting impact to Delta’s entire operation can be significant.

http://news.delta.com/chief-operatin...cedented-storm
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Old Apr 6, 17, 5:59 pm
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I think the issue here isn't the hub itself, but DL's lack of issuing a waiver when they knew well ahead of time it was going to be an ugly day that could quickly domino.

The Storm Prediction Center at NOAA forecasted a "high" probability of Severe Storms in Atlanta on Wednesday, and that is essentially the highest level/warning they can issue (and rarely, rarely ever do), and yet DL didn't issue any sort of waiver, even during the middle of the day when the chaos had already begun.

In this sense maybe ATL is too big, because it is virtually impossible to effectively issue a waiver ahead of time or reroute customers via other hubs simply because so much of seat capacity is routed through it. Nonetheless, I'm still pretty opinionated about the lack of the waiver, it's ridiculous and has been a nonstop headache for me these past 2 days.

I showed up to BWI this morning to find my flight cancelled after having it cancelled last night as well, and that I'd been rebooked out of IAD this evening (which is now...also cancelled). Finally broke down and bought a full fare ticket on United instead.
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Old Apr 6, 17, 6:01 pm
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If your idea is to move some flights to CVG, I'm all for it.

Delta was ridiculously slow at issuing a waiver. What were they afraid of exactly?
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Old Apr 6, 17, 6:32 pm
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The answer to the question in the title is no.
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Old Apr 6, 17, 6:40 pm
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Originally Posted by JSFox View Post
NWA was nearly evenly split between MSP & DTW with spare capacity at each. There were certainly IRROPS but I don't remember any quite as impacting as those we've seen recently with ATL.
Let me remind you of this fun episode:

Northwest To Pay 7,000 Passengers In '99 Snow Mess
January 10, 2001|By Alex Rodriguez, Tribune Staff Writer.


Northwest Airlines agreed Tuesday to pay $7.1 million to thousands of passengers stranded on a Detroit tarmac for up to 10 hours during a 1999 snowstorm that made the airline a symbol of commercial aviation's customer service woes.

Though a blizzard dumped 12 inches of snow on Detroit Metropolitan Airport on New Year's weekend that year, Northwest officials decided to continue running flights in and out of the airport while other major airlines shut down.


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...olitan-airport

Delta has a smaller proportion of flights departing ATL daily than NW did at either MSP or DTW circa 2008.
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Old Apr 6, 17, 6:46 pm
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme View Post
Let me remind you of this fun episode:

Northwest To Pay 7,000 Passengers In '99 Snow Mess
January 10, 2001|By Alex Rodriguez, Tribune Staff Writer.


Northwest Airlines agreed Tuesday to pay $7.1 million to thousands of passengers stranded on a Detroit tarmac for up to 10 hours during a 1999 snowstorm that made the airline a symbol of commercial aviation's customer service woes.

Though a blizzard dumped 12 inches of snow on Detroit Metropolitan Airport on New Year's weekend that year, Northwest officials decided to continue running flights in and out of the airport while other major airlines shut down.


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...olitan-airport

Delta has a smaller proportion of flights departing ATL daily than NW did at either MSP or DTW circa 2008.
The best part:

"Later that evening, the captain of a 757 waiting for a gate sent an electronic message to Northwest officials: "Would U pass on that the next problem they will have to deal with is blown slides. This is not a joke." The captain was threatening to taxi to a cargo carrier's ramp and deploy the plane's emergency slides to let passengers off."
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Old Apr 6, 17, 6:49 pm
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Originally Posted by WWads View Post
The best part:

"Later that evening, the captain of a 757 waiting for a gate sent an electronic message to Northwest officials: "Would U pass on that the next problem they will have to deal with is blown slides. This is not a joke." The captain was threatening to taxi to a cargo carrier's ramp and deploy the plane's emergency slides to let passengers off."
It would've been appropriate to blow the slides after just 4 hours. 10 hours is some good patience
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Old Apr 6, 17, 6:53 pm
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Originally Posted by WWads View Post
If your idea is to move some flights to CVG, I'm all for it.

Delta was ridiculously slow at issuing a waiver. What were they afraid of exactly?
With room to spare it would make a great facility for irrops situations. Just remove any passengers who's destination is ATL or any airport in the storm area. Then reschedule a bank of the most important flights to meet and get passengers on their way.
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Old Apr 6, 17, 6:59 pm
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
With room to spare it would make a great facility for irrops situations. Just remove any passengers who's destination is ATL or any airport in the storm area. Then reschedule a bank of the most important flights to meet and get passengers on their way.
Perhaps, although CVG doesn't have much large aircraft overnight parking space. That will change once C is completely demolished (that's what they using the freed up space for), but CVG was never a huge mainline airport.

Concourse B definitely has the passenger space, and there is lots of excess hotel capacity in the area.

Last edited by KDCAflyer; Apr 6, 17 at 7:04 pm
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Old Apr 6, 17, 7:00 pm
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme View Post
Delta has a smaller proportion of flights departing ATL daily than NW did at either MSP or DTW circa 2008.
Stop it with your facts.
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