msglsmo

Yes. Spread that traffic out to other hubs and focus cities.

Putting all that traffic in one airport is just asking for trouble.

PirateJeff

I've always wondered why many hubs are in cities that routinely experience severe weather (e.g. tornadoes, snow)

TheMadBrewer

Just like trailer parks, hubs attract tornados and storms...

KRSW

(emphasis added)

...and probably the nastiest terminals of any "major" hub airport. A & B are more like prison or army barracks with minimal windows, low filthy ceilings, and the greasy smell of fast food wafting through the terminal. Not to mention that they're chronically overcrowded, sometimes beyond what is safe. Don't forget the corruption and that the former mayor's family own many (most?) of the food concessions at ATL as well.

As far as operations go, yes, I will give that ATL is more of a machine than a traditional airport and things generally work, BUT that's more credit to DL than anything else.

I was going to make a reference to the hub system being bad for IRROPs compared to direct flights, but I'm reminded of the performance of Southwest and Allegiant when IRROPs happen and how often they happen. Both have worse track records than DL. Some would say it's unfair to include Allegiant in here, but they are a Part 121 carrier just like the others and they fly MD-8x's like DL does as well.

ajl1239

Yes, for a few reasons:

1.) Operationally, there is little resilience -- one big disaster and all Delta flights are up a creek.

2.) For people who actually live in Atlanta or need to travel there frequently, Delta's hub means flights are outrageously expensive -- domestic and international -- to/from just about anywhere.

3.) It makes ATL a ridiculous airport for travelers. Case in point: I was flying Southwest from ATL to Mexico City via Houston last month. After clearing security, there was no central list of departures, only American flights in Concourse N. Then, when I got to my flight concourse, there were no Southwest screens at the escalators to the AirTrain, only Delta screens. It's insane that Delta is so petty about dominating their hub that they don't even allow for departure boards for every flight leaving the airport.

13thandseven

Emphasis mine.

Do you have a source on that, perhaps from the Fulton County Fire Marshal?

Neither of these things exist in ATL.

JSFox

Interesting take on the meltdown.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/...ampaign=buffer


"So Delta was forced to do a CTRL-ALT-DEL reboot of their system, stranding me and thousands of others in the process. It was that or cease functioning as an airline. There really wasn’t a choice here."

"...the operational opposite of efficiency is not inefficiency, it’s redundancy. It’s spare parts. It’s slack in the system. For example, the human body is not very efficient. We have two kidneys when we only need one. We have more brain power and lung capacity than we routinely use. If economists – or Delta efficiency experts – designed the human body, they’d get rid of all that redundancy. It keeps us from operating at peak efficiency."

SSF556

Not sure where you were but there is no Concourse N at ATL.

minnyfly

But there is a Terminal North. Bet that's what was meant.

Paul510

I heard a stat in the reporting of the weekends scheduling clusterf&*k that said 50% of all of Delta's fleet go to ATL everyday!?! If true it is definite logistical disadvantaged to both AA, and UA and especially SWA. I'm guessing DL has over 800 aircraft, well over 800 and to have half of those touch base at ATL everyday really needs to be changed.

-Paul

pbarnette

I'd bet 50% of AA and UA's fleets touch at least one hub each day. That is simply the nature of utilization - a plane that flew MSP-BOS doesn't necessarily just turn around to MSP, but may go to ATL then to IAH and on to DTW. Honestly, I'm more curious what percentage of the fleet touches every hub each day.

kop84

Mega-Hubs are what allow for millions of people to have 1 stop availability for thousands of potential flight combinations.

You can go one stop from FSD to LOS or JNB with mega-hubs. Or from ZRH to ICT with one stop.

Point to point flying is great but if airlines dramatically scaled back the mega-hubs in ATL, DFW, IAH, ORD, et al and instead focused more on point to point, a ton of towns/cities are going to be left with none or virtually no commercial air service.

Plus I don't often hear complaints about most other foreign airlines who virtually 100% of their flights goes in/out of one major hub.

minnyfly

DL stated that 60% of their mainline fleet touches ATL in a single day. So with about 850 mainline aircraft, that's about 500 of them. It's efficient when the system works. It's a problem when it doesn't.

The only hub that could come close to matching ATL's 60% is DFW, and I doubt it makes 50%. American's mainline fleet is about a hundred aircraft larger, and last I found data for, AA at DFW runs at least 200 fewer mainline flights a day than DL at ATL.

Most flights are out-and-backs for the hub-and-spoke carriers. If a plane hits three hubs in one day that's high - I've seen it more often with UA. Some planes go days or even weeks without switching hubs, particularly certain types like the MD-88.

TheBOSman

The problem isn't the aircraft touching a hub. It's that they are touching the same hub. I'd bet 90% of UA's and AA's fleets, of planes that have flown at least one flight that day (so as to exclude planes in for full day maintenance), touch a hub. It's likely closer to 100% for the narrowbodies. But 60% of UA's fleet per day likely doesn't touch ORD, and 60% of AA's fleet per day likely doesn't touch DFW. As noted below, AA runs a number fewer daily mainline flights through DFW than DL does through ATL.

AA in particular has recently allocated the majority of each plane type to particular hubs, i.e. MD-80s mostly, if not totally, based at DFW and ORD, rarely flying to LAX/JFK/MIA in recent years. When AA had two subsets of seating arrangements on 737s, the lower seat count one was based out of ORD. Recently, 757s have been mostly focused on flights to/from MIA. And some of the aircraft rarely fly to particular destinations as well: I posted a few years back on the AA board about seeing an MD-80 at an AA gate in BOS as there were no flights scheduled on them with AA to/from BOS for most of the past 5+ years. DL doesn't have this type of scheduling.

Paul510

This chart is interesting, it cites "connectivity" has the most important factor in ranking a hub, which makes ATL and DL the biggest hub operation in N. America.

https://skift.com/2015/10/08/8-chart...port-megahubs/

Yes AA is really dependent on DFW and UA on IAH, but they also have large operations at ORD, and on any given day I find it hard to believe that 60% of their Mainline fleets are touching base at DFW or IAH.

ATL, DFW, IAH are all Southern cities that usually are never affected by winter weather, Geography and airport infrastructure have more to do with a airline choosing a hub then the size of the metro population, I mean in DL's case SLC is a hub and Seattle is a "focus city".