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Cincinnati to Paris to Rome with one hour layover - possible to make it?

Cincinnati to Paris to Rome with one hour layover - possible to make it?

Old Mar 28, 17, 5:46 am
  #1  
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Cincinnati to Paris to Rome with one hour layover - possible to make it?

I am traveling with my husband and three kids (ages 9, 14 and 16) from Cincinnati to Paris to Rome in July. I booked through Expedia on a bundle deal and only realized yesterday, three weeks later, that the connection in Paris is exactly 60 minutes. We arrive at 8:15 a.m. on Delta and we depart at 9:15 a.m. on Air France. We arrive in terminal 2E in Paris and depart from terminal 2F. I read on another site that it takes at least 30-40 minutes to get from 2E to 2F.

I talked to a Delta agent yesterday to try to change my connecting flight but they said they could not help me since I booked a bundle deal with hotel through Expedia. But the agent agreed that 60 minutes is a very short time to try to make that connection since I have to go through passport control. He recommended I call Expedia and tell them that I spoke to a Delta agent and the Delta agent said I couldn't likely make the flight. Expedia balked, and I spent an hour on the phone with no results. In the end, the Expedia agent said I could only change the flights if I spent $1,500 extra. Which is not acceptable to me.

Has anyone ever done this connection and is there any chance we can make it and, if not, what is the likely scenario? I'd hate to try to snag five seats on another flight, if we miss this one, and not be able to stay together. I know it's likely we'd have to piecemeal it and fly 2 and 3 - one parent staying with 1-2 of our kids - to get to Rome.

My next question is, has anyone ever battled with Expedia and/or Delta on changing a flight and won and if so, how did you do it? For whatever it's worth, I bought insurance so I don't have to pay change fees, just the fare difference.

Thanks so much. It makes me sick to think I might be stuck paying $1,500 to make this flight a better one.
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Old Mar 28, 17, 5:54 am
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Minimum connection time at CDG

It looks like Minimum Connection Time is 90 minutes (depending on various data).

I'd call Expedia and tell them they issued a ticket that violates the MCT. At best, they might be willing to release the ticket to DL to allow DL to fix it for you.
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Old Mar 28, 17, 6:20 am
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Well, Delta has it listed as a flight option on their main website, and Expedia said that Delta says 60 minutes is the MCT for those connections at the CDG airport. That's why Expedia refused to change it without me handing over $1,500.

I find it deceptive that while Delta alerts passengers of a potential problem by putting a yellow exclamation point on the connecting flight info, due to the short connection time, Expedia didn't list any such alert which is why I overlooked it in my haste to buy a cheap ticket. Dang it. This feels like such a noob flyer mistake.
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Old Mar 28, 17, 6:38 am
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I looked on expertflyer... and there is data for both 60 min and 90 min MCT for 2E -> 2F

STANDARD.D/D...D/I...I/D...I/I.
ONLINE .20 1.00 1.00 1.00
OFFLINE .20 1.00 1.00 1.00

** OR * ARE ALL
DL-DL II 1.00 TRM 2E - 2F
DL-DL ID 1.00 TRM 2E - 2F
**-** ID 1.30 TRM 2E - 2F
**-** II 1.30 TRM 2E - 2F

So its kind of confusing to me... DL to DL would be 60 min, however you are on DL to AF so I think that would be 90 min.
Are you on a DL codeshare or is it an actual AF flight number?
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Old Mar 28, 17, 6:48 am
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How do I know if it's a DL codeshare vs an AF flight number?

This is what my reservation says: Delta 8618 Operated by AIR FRANCE

It's an actual Air France flight. I can't even reserve seats yet for that leg because of Air France wanting 20 euros pp to reserve a seat early, but I can see my flight info on Air France.
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Old Mar 28, 17, 6:52 am
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delta.com is currently selling this as a valid connection --
DL228/DL8618(AF1504). I'm pretty confident they wouldn't sell it if it didn't meet the MCT.

It looks like there are around 6 later flights on AF to FCO and 3 later flights on AZ. I'm pretty confident that even if you miss your flight, there are more than enough other later options to get you there on the same day on the same flight. I'd probably just go ahead and keep the flights and just be aware of the alternatives in case you miss it. Yes, you may have to split up your family between the two adults, but your kids are not that little and this will hardly be the end of the world. You will quite possibly be split anyway if you don't pre-select your seats on your current AF flight. You can use google flights to look up all the skyteam options for your date.

https://www.google.com/flights/#sear...;a=SKYTEAM;s=0

Last edited by LBJ; Mar 28, 17 at 7:00 am
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Old Mar 28, 17, 6:53 am
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Originally Posted by rylan View Post
I looked on expertflyer... and there is data for both 60 min and 90 min MCT for 2E -> 2F

STANDARD.D/D...D/I...I/D...I/I.
ONLINE .20 1.00 1.00 1.00
OFFLINE .20 1.00 1.00 1.00

** OR * ARE ALL
DL-DL II 1.00 TRM 2E - 2F
DL-DL ID 1.00 TRM 2E - 2F
**-** ID 1.30 TRM 2E - 2F
**-** II 1.30 TRM 2E - 2F

So its kind of confusing to me... DL to DL would be 60 min, however you are on DL to AF so I think that would be 90 min.
Are you on a DL codeshare or is it an actual AF flight number?
It does, unfortunately in this case, meet MCT exactly for DL to AF per ExpertFlyer:

STANDARD.D/D...D/I...I/D...I/I.
ONLINE .20 1.00 1.00 1.00
OFFLINE .20 1.00 1.00 1.00
** OR * ARE ALL
DL-AF II .45 ALL - FLT 102 TRM 2D - 2E
DL-AF II .45 ALL - FLT 102 TRM 2E - 2E
DL-AF II .45 ALL - FLT 102 TRM 2F - 2E
DL-AF II .45 ALL - FLT 102 TRM 2G - 2E
DL-AF II .50 ALL - FLT 226 TRM 2D - 2C
DL-AF II .50 ALL - FLT 226 TRM 2E - 2C
DL-AF II .50 ALL - FLT 226 TRM 2F - 2C
DL-AF II .50 ALL - FLT 226 TRM 2G - 2C
DL-AF II .45 ALL - FLT 456 TRM 2D - 2F
DL-AF II .45 ALL - FLT 456 TRM 2E - 2F
DL-AF II .45 ALL - FLT 456 TRM 2F - 2F
DL-AF II .45 ALL - FLT 456 TRM 2G - 2F
DL-AF II 1.00 TRM 2E - 2A
DL-AF II 1.00 TRM 2E - 2C
DL-AF II 1.00 TRM 2E - 2D
DL-AF II 1.00 TRM 2E - 2E
DL-AF II 1.00 TRM 2E - 2F
DL-AF II 1.00 TRM 2E - 2G
I wouldn't spend the $1500 - depending on how long until departure there's almost a 100% chance of a DL schedule change. Since you are right at a 60 minute connection even a slight schedule change pushing your CVG - CDG flight 5 minutes later will put you in automatic rebook territory since you'll be violating MCT.

I don't have any experience with AF/DL but if you misconnect I think they'll accommodate you on the next available flight?
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Old Mar 28, 17, 6:55 am
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Originally Posted by taz99 View Post
How do I know if it's a DL codeshare vs an AF flight number?

This is what my reservation says: Delta 8618 Operated by AIR FRANCE

It's an actual Air France flight. I can't even reserve seats yet for that leg because of Air France wanting 20 euros pp to reserve a seat early, but I can see my flight info on Air France.
You're on a DL flight number that happens to be flown by AF. This mistake has happened a bit lately. DL is screwing up MCT by forgetting that some DL flight numbers are really other airline flights. In your case if the 2nd flight had been booked as an AF flight then MCT would be 90 minutes. However since booked as a DL FLIGHT it's 60 minutes.
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Old Mar 28, 17, 6:56 am
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Originally Posted by rylan View Post
I looked on expertflyer... and there is data for both 60 min and 90 min MCT for 2E -> 2F

STANDARD.D/D...D/I...I/D...I/I.
ONLINE .20 1.00 1.00 1.00
OFFLINE .20 1.00 1.00 1.00

** OR * ARE ALL
DL-DL II 1.00 TRM 2E - 2F
DL-DL ID 1.00 TRM 2E - 2F
**-** ID 1.30 TRM 2E - 2F
**-** II 1.30 TRM 2E - 2F

So its kind of confusing to me... DL to DL would be 60 min, however you are on DL to AF so I think that would be 90 min.
Are you on a DL codeshare or is it an actual AF flight number?
MCT is 60 minutes. DL is on the hook to protect the connection. MCT is published by airline and does not necessarily have to represent reality.

Several years ago DL published a MCT for LHR DL-KL of 6 hours while LHR DL-DL was 2 hours. They definitely wanted you to book the DL-codeshare LHR-AMS instead of KL. It certainly does not take 6 hours to connect in LHR even if it feels like it sometimes.
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Old Mar 28, 17, 7:02 am
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Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
MCT is 60 minutes. DL is on the hook to protect the connection. MCT is published by airline and does not necessarily have to represent reality.

Several years ago DL published a MCT for LHR DL-KL of 6 hours while LHR DL-DL was 2 hours. They definitely wanted you to book the DL-codeshare LHR-AMS instead of KL. It certainly does not take 6 hours to connect in LHR even if it feels like it sometimes.
Does MCT depend on the operating carriers or the marketing carriers?
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Old Mar 28, 17, 7:49 am
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Originally Posted by taz99 View Post
Well, Delta has it listed as a flight option on their main website, and Expedia said that Delta says 60 minutes is the MCT for those connections at the CDG airport. That's why Expedia refused to change it without me handing over $1,500.

I find it deceptive that while Delta alerts passengers of a potential problem by putting a yellow exclamation point on the connecting flight info, due to the short connection time, Expedia didn't list any such alert which is why I overlooked it in my haste to buy a cheap ticket. Dang it. This feels like such a noob flyer mistake.
Stop worrying. Do one of two things -

1.) When you get to CVG airport, check in at the airport. Nicely alert the check-in agent to the short connection time, and see if they can rebook you on the next one so that you have confirmed seats. They may or may not be willing to do this without any cost. I wouldn't "push it" in asking for a supervisor etc. - just alert the first agent (and have the other flight number you want ready to go) and ask nicely. If they decline, let it go there.

2.) Alert agents at CDG that you have a short connection. If immigration queues are long, and you don't have SkyPriority, it's a possibility you won't make it.

If this happens, the agents at CDG will be happy to rebook you on the next available flight without charge. This happens at CDG ALL THE TIME because of the immigration queues. So don't fret it - but speak to an Air France agent ASAP after immigration if you in fact miss your original connection. Dilly dallying to get food etc. and then after another hour going to speak to Air France makes them less likely to help.

Note: you may get what you perceive as "attitude" from AF agents, especially when compared to DL CVG agents. Do not take offense as that's just how we sometimes perceive the behavior of CS agents there. Please do not huff and puff and complain about DL and AF making an impossible connection as this will make them less likely to help.

Just state the facts - that, if you did miss your flight, the immigration queues were long, and that you would like the 5 of you on the next confirmed flight to FCO. If you are polite and stick to the facts without any extraneous commentary (and do it very soon after missing the connection), almost guaranteed AF will help you out without any cost.
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Old Mar 28, 17, 8:29 am
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I'm not intimately familiar with CDG, but I think if the first flight arrives on time, there's a good chance you can make it, and you should hustle.

If the flight is *one* minute late, then the itinerary has broken the MCT and DL/AF pretty much has to help you. Not to say that they wouldn't help you if you arrive on time or slightly early, but you have a stronger case if actual connection time is less than that 60m MCT. In theory anyway!

At the end of the day, I wouldn't worry about incurring extra expense to get to FCO, especially since you say you have trip insurance. I would be surprised if you have to split the family up on different flights, and I think the most reasonable "worst" case is you don't get seat assignments together on the rebooked flight.

FWIW, I recently missed a connection at CDG on AF (was originally a 1h55m connection; we might have been able to make it but I didn't want to run...), and the AF staff couldn't have been more gracious or accommodating. This was in first class though.
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Old Mar 28, 17, 9:59 am
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Does MCT depend on the operating carriers or the marketing carriers?
Apparently is it marketing based on which connecting flight are being offered.
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Old Mar 28, 17, 10:03 am
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airfrance.com also permits the connection (booked as AF8701/AF1504).
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Old Mar 28, 17, 10:22 am
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Originally Posted by LBJ View Post
Yes, you may have to split up your family between the two adults, but your kids are not that little and this will hardly be the end of the world. You will quite possibly be split anyway if you don't pre-select your seats on your current AF flight. You can use google flights to look up all the skyteam options for your date.

https://www.google.com/flights/#sear...;a=SKYTEAM;s=0
Do you mean that if I don't pay in advance for assigned seats on Air France that we might not all get on that flight, even though it's the one we booked? Or that we might not all sit together, but we'll be on that flight? I'm fine with not sitting together on the plane. Heck, our 16-year-old has already said he'd prefer to sit in a row far away from us. (Feel the love!) I just really wanted to try to get us all on the same plane to Rome, because it's tougher when you split up, especially since it's my husband who speaks French and Italian, not me!
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