Jun 20, 2017, 7:21 pm
Last edit by: N515CR
Status as of 18 Apr 2024
Initial flights:
DTW>NRT effective Oct 30 2017 (from B744). Inaugural A350 flight, flown by N502DN.
DTW>ICN effective Nov 18 2017 (in conjunction with the B744). First flight flown by N501DN. Transitioned to the A350 Dec 18 2017.
DTW>PEK effective Jan 17 2018 (in conjunction with the A332). First flight flown by N503DN. Transitioned to the A350 Feb 13 2018.
DTW>AMS effective March 31 2018 (from A332/333) - DL132/133 only.
DTW>PVG effective April 19 2018 (from B744/B777).
ATL>ICN effective March 24 2018 (from B777).
LAX>PVG effective July 2 2018 (alternated with the B777 until July 18 2018).
Press Releases Regarding A350 Routes
http://news.delta.com/delta-s-new-a3...eon-march-2018
http://news.delta.com/delta-expands-...rope-and-china
Related threads:
2017 The Year of the A350
Are there enough toilets on the new A350?
UA 77W Polaris vs DL A350 DeltaOne in Business
All cabins feature wifi, USB power, and AVOD at every seat.
Delta One (business/first seats, rows 1-9)
* Features 32 of the new Delta One Suites with lie-flat seats, 22-24" width, and 76-81" length in a 1-2-1 configuration.
* A full-height door at every suite and sliding privacy dividers between center suites
* In-suite, customizable ambient lighting; dedicated stowage compartments for shoes, headphones and laptops; and memory foam-enhanced comfort cushion
* An 18-inch, high resolution in-flight entertainment monitor and 110-volt power
* Delta's webpage on the new suites: https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...ess-class.html
Delta Premium Select (premium economy seats, rows 20-25)
* Has 48 seats with 18.5" width, 38" pitch, up to 7" of recline, and adjustable leg rests in a 2-4-2 configuration
* Up to a 13.3-inch, high resolution in-flight entertainment screen and 110-volt power
* Delta's webpage on these new seats: https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...m-economy.html
Main Cabin (economy seats, rows 30-55)
* Has 226 seats with 18" width and 31-32" pitch in a 3-3-3 configuration.
* Preferred seats are window and aisle seats in rows 30-33, 41, and all seats in exit row 40
* Does not have 110-volt power
Config of the 3-class cabin was…D1/32 seats (rows 1-9)…PS/48 seats (rows 20-25)...MC/226 seats (rows 30-55)…for a total 306 seats. This config was on the first 13 frames (3501-3513) delivered and then subsequently they were updated to the 4-class cabin as detailed below.
Config of the 4-class cabin is...D1/32 seats (rows 1-9)...PS/48 seats (rows 20-25)…C +/36 seats (rows 30-33)…MC/190 seats (rows 34-55)… for a total of 306 seats. Aircraft designation is 359.
Config of the 3-class cabin (ex-LATAM) is…D1/20 seats (rows 1-5)…C +/63 seats (rows 16-22)…MC/246 seats (rows 23-51)…for an total of 339 seats. Aircraft designation is 35L.
New config of the 4-class cabin starting 06/01/24 is…D1/40 seats (rows 1-11)…PS/40 seats (rows 20-24)…C +/36 seats (rows 30-33)…MC/159 seats (rows 34-51) for a total of 275 seats. Aircraft designation is 35H.
Seat map (link to Delta webpage)
359 (4 class) cabin tour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ3D-xZGfAs
35L (ex-Latam) cabin tour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgO-Os_rLCk
A350 Current Routes:
DTW>NRT Started Oct 30 2017 (from B744). First flight was flown by N502DN and it was the inaugural A350 flight.
DTW>ICN Started Nov 18 2017 (from B744). First flight was flown by N501DN.
DTW>PEK Started Jan 17 2018 (from A332). First flight was flown by N503DN.
DTW>AMS (Alternating DL132/133 and DL134/135) Started March 31 2018 (from A332/333). First flight was flown by N502DN.
DTW>PVG Started April 19 2018 (from B777). First flight was flown by N508DN.
ATL>ICN Started March 24 2018 (from B777). First flight was flown by N504DN.
LAX>PVG Started July 2 2018 (from B777). First flight was flown by N504DN.
SEA>NRT Started March 1 2019 (from B767/A333). First flight was flown by N502DN.
Press Releases Regarding A350 Routes:
http://news.delta.com/delta-s-new-a3...eon-march-2018
http://news.delta.com/delta-expands-...rope-and-china
A350-900: 20/35 delivered (19 in service, 1 in induction).
3501 N501DN Delivered TLS>ATL Aug 5 2017. Entered service Oct 31 2017. Flew the first A350 flight DTW>ICN Nov 18 2017. C+ installed at MSP Jan 10-Feb 2 2021.
3502 N502DN Delivered TLS>ATL Sept 1 2017. Entered service and flew the inaugural A350 flight DTW>NRT Oct 30 2017. C+ installed at MSP Feb 17-March 1 2021.
3503 N503DN Delivered TLS>MSP Nov 1 2017. Entered service DTW>NRT Nov 18 2017. Flew the first A350 flight DTW>PEK Jan 17 2018. C+ installed at MSP Feb 2-16 2021.
3504 N504DN Delivered TLS>MSP Nov 29 2017. Entered service DTW>NRT Dec 18 2017. Flew the first A350 flight ATL>ICN on March 24 2018. Flew the first A350 flight LAX>PVG on July 2 2018. C+ installed at MSP March 1-15 2021.
3505 N505DN Delivered TLS>ATL>MSP Dec 12-13 2017. Entered service DTW>NRT Jan 12 2018. C+ installed at MSP March 26-April 9 2021.
3506 N506DN Delivered TLS>ATL Dec 22 2017. Entered service DTW>ICN Feb 7 2018. C+ installed at MSP March 15-26 2021.
3507 N507DN Delivered TLS>ATL Feb 21 2018. Entered service DTW>NRT March 17 2018. C+ installed at MSP Dec 30 2020-Jan 20 2021.
3508 N508DN Delivered TLS>ATL March 6 2018. Entered service DTW>ICN March 30 2018. C+ installed at MSP Jan 17-31 2021.
3509 N509DN Delivered TLS>ATL April 13 2018. Entered service DTW>ICN May 6 2018. C+ installed at MSP Jan 30-Feb 15 2021.
3510 N510DN Delivered TLS>ATL May 24 2018. Entered service DTW>NRT June 16 2018. C+ installed at MSP Feb 15-March 6 2021.
3511 N511DN Delivered TLS>ATL June 14 2018. Entered service DTW>ICN July 7 2018. C+ installed at MSP March 16-April 16 2021.
3512 N512DN Delivered TLS>ATL Jan 26 2019. Entered service ATL>ICN Feb 14 2019. C+ installed at MSP April 17-22 2021.
3513 N513DZ Delivered TLS>ATL March 1 2019. Entered service DTW>AMS March 21 2019. C+ installed at MSP April 22-25 2021.
Note: all A359s with ship numbers 3514 and higher were or will be delivered with C+ installed.
3514 N514DN Delivered TLS>NRT Sept 16-17 2020. Entered service DTW>CDG Oct 17 2020.
3515 N515DN Delivered TLS>AMS Sept 16 2020. Entered revenue service (cargo) NRT>ATL Nov 5 2020 and revenue passenger service ATL>ICN Nov 6 2020.
3516 N516DN Delivered TLS>NRT Jan 26-27 2022. Entered service MSP>DTW Feb 24 2022.
3517 N517DZ Delivered TLS>NGO Feb 1-2 2022…ferried NGO>NRT for induction Feb 12 2022. Entered service DTW>AMS March 7 2022.
3518 N518DZ Delivered TLS>NRT Nov 22-23 2022. Entered service DTW>HND Dec 18 2022.
3519 N519DN Delivered TLS>NRT Dec 16-17 2022. Entered service MSP>PHX Jan 9 2023. ViaSat IFC (prototype).
3520 N520DN Delivered TLS>NRT April 4-5 2023. First aircraft delivered in the latest 35H config...exited NRT-MSP Apr 18 2024. ViaSat IFC.
MSN 661 3521 N521DN...second test flight April 16 2024…special “Team USA” livery…delivery spring 2024.
MSN 673 3522 N522DZ...spotted in special “2028 LA Olympic Games livery” March 23 2024…delivery spring 2024.
MSN 677 3523 N523DN...spotted in full livery w/o engines April 10 2024…delivery spring 2024.
MSN 680 3524 N524DN...Delivery scheduled 2024.
MSN xxx 3525 N525DN...Delivery scheduled 2024.
MSN xxx 3526 N526DN...Delivery scheduled 2024.
MSN xxx 3527 N527DN...Delivery scheduled 2025.
MSN xxx 3528 N528DN...Delivery scheduled 2025.
Upcoming deliveries/orders as of 12/31/23:
2024 7
2025 6
2026 & later 3
Total 16
A350-900 (35L): 9
MSN 024...3568...N568DZ...ex PR-XTA...ferried VCV>SEA>SIN May 5-8 2023 for induction. Induction completed & ferried SIN>SEA>ATL Aug 19-20 2023….entered service ATL>MXP Sept 3 2023. ViaSat IFC.
MSN 027...3569...N569DZ...ex PR-XTB...ferried VCV>SEA>SIN April 13-15 2023 for induction...induction completed & ferried SIN>LAX>ATL July 7 2023...entered service ATL>BCN July 15 2023. ViaSat IFC.
MSN 048...3570...N570DZ...ex A7-AMC/PR-XTE...ferried VCV>SEA>SIN Feb 24-26 2023 for induction...induction completed & ferried SIN>ATL May 17 2023...entered service ATL>CDG May 27 2023. ViaSat IFC.
MSN 064...3571...N571DZ... ex A7-AMB/PR-XTF...ferried VCV>SEA>SIN Jan 12-14 2023 for induction...induction completed & ferried SIN>ATL April 4 2023...entered service ATL>AMS April 15 2023. ViaSat IFC.
MSN 200...3572...N572DZ...ex PR-XTH...ferried VCV>SEA>SIN Nov 9-11 2022 for induction...induction completed & ferried SIN>ATL Jan 20 2023…entered service ATL>GTB Feb 11 2023. ViaSat IFC.
MSN 250...3573...N573DZ...ex PR-XTI…ferried VCV>SEA>SIN Sept 27-29 2022 for induction...induction completed & ferried SIN>ATL Dec 7 2022...entered service DTW>HNL Jan 1 2023. ViaSat IFC.
MSN 265...3574...N574DZ...ex A7-AQA/PR-XTJ...ferried VCV>SEA>SIN June 2-5 2022 for induction...induction completed & ferried SIN>SEA>MSP Aug 19 2022...entered service ATL>SEA Sept 9 2022. 2Ku WiFi.
MSN 282...3575...N575DZ...ex A7-AQB/PR-XTK...ferried VCV>SEA>SIN Feb 11-13 2022 for induction…induction completed & ferried SIN>MSP June 1 2022…entered service ATL>DTW June 13 2022. 2Ku WiFi.
MSN 313...3576...N576DZ...ex A7-AQC/PR-XTL...ferried VCV>SEA>SIN March 10-12 2022 for induction…induction completed & ferried SIN>MSP July 18 2022…entered service ATL>SEA Aug 2 2022. 2Ku WiFi.
*The 9 ex-LATAM frames were refurbished between February 2022 and September 2023…config of the 3-class cabin is D1/30…C+/63…MC/246 for a total of 339 seats.
Initial flights:
DTW>NRT effective Oct 30 2017 (from B744). Inaugural A350 flight, flown by N502DN.
DTW>ICN effective Nov 18 2017 (in conjunction with the B744). First flight flown by N501DN. Transitioned to the A350 Dec 18 2017.
DTW>PEK effective Jan 17 2018 (in conjunction with the A332). First flight flown by N503DN. Transitioned to the A350 Feb 13 2018.
DTW>AMS effective March 31 2018 (from A332/333) - DL132/133 only.
DTW>PVG effective April 19 2018 (from B744/B777).
ATL>ICN effective March 24 2018 (from B777).
LAX>PVG effective July 2 2018 (alternated with the B777 until July 18 2018).
Press Releases Regarding A350 Routes
http://news.delta.com/delta-s-new-a3...eon-march-2018
http://news.delta.com/delta-expands-...rope-and-china
Related threads:
2017 The Year of the A350
Are there enough toilets on the new A350?
UA 77W Polaris vs DL A350 DeltaOne in Business
All cabins feature wifi, USB power, and AVOD at every seat.
Delta One (business/first seats, rows 1-9)
* Features 32 of the new Delta One Suites with lie-flat seats, 22-24" width, and 76-81" length in a 1-2-1 configuration.
* A full-height door at every suite and sliding privacy dividers between center suites
* In-suite, customizable ambient lighting; dedicated stowage compartments for shoes, headphones and laptops; and memory foam-enhanced comfort cushion
* An 18-inch, high resolution in-flight entertainment monitor and 110-volt power
* Delta's webpage on the new suites: https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...ess-class.html
Delta Premium Select (premium economy seats, rows 20-25)
* Has 48 seats with 18.5" width, 38" pitch, up to 7" of recline, and adjustable leg rests in a 2-4-2 configuration
* Up to a 13.3-inch, high resolution in-flight entertainment screen and 110-volt power
* Delta's webpage on these new seats: https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...m-economy.html
Main Cabin (economy seats, rows 30-55)
* Has 226 seats with 18" width and 31-32" pitch in a 3-3-3 configuration.
* Preferred seats are window and aisle seats in rows 30-33, 41, and all seats in exit row 40
* Does not have 110-volt power
Config of the 3-class cabin was…D1/32 seats (rows 1-9)…PS/48 seats (rows 20-25)...MC/226 seats (rows 30-55)…for a total 306 seats. This config was on the first 13 frames (3501-3513) delivered and then subsequently they were updated to the 4-class cabin as detailed below.
Config of the 4-class cabin is...D1/32 seats (rows 1-9)...PS/48 seats (rows 20-25)…C +/36 seats (rows 30-33)…MC/190 seats (rows 34-55)… for a total of 306 seats. Aircraft designation is 359.
Config of the 3-class cabin (ex-LATAM) is…D1/20 seats (rows 1-5)…C +/63 seats (rows 16-22)…MC/246 seats (rows 23-51)…for an total of 339 seats. Aircraft designation is 35L.
New config of the 4-class cabin starting 06/01/24 is…D1/40 seats (rows 1-11)…PS/40 seats (rows 20-24)…C +/36 seats (rows 30-33)…MC/159 seats (rows 34-51) for a total of 275 seats. Aircraft designation is 35H.
Seat map (link to Delta webpage)
359 (4 class) cabin tour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ3D-xZGfAs
35L (ex-Latam) cabin tour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgO-Os_rLCk
A350 Current Routes:
DTW>NRT Started Oct 30 2017 (from B744). First flight was flown by N502DN and it was the inaugural A350 flight.
DTW>ICN Started Nov 18 2017 (from B744). First flight was flown by N501DN.
DTW>PEK Started Jan 17 2018 (from A332). First flight was flown by N503DN.
DTW>AMS (Alternating DL132/133 and DL134/135) Started March 31 2018 (from A332/333). First flight was flown by N502DN.
DTW>PVG Started April 19 2018 (from B777). First flight was flown by N508DN.
ATL>ICN Started March 24 2018 (from B777). First flight was flown by N504DN.
LAX>PVG Started July 2 2018 (from B777). First flight was flown by N504DN.
SEA>NRT Started March 1 2019 (from B767/A333). First flight was flown by N502DN.
Press Releases Regarding A350 Routes:
http://news.delta.com/delta-s-new-a3...eon-march-2018
http://news.delta.com/delta-expands-...rope-and-china
A350-900: 20/35 delivered (19 in service, 1 in induction).
3501 N501DN Delivered TLS>ATL Aug 5 2017. Entered service Oct 31 2017. Flew the first A350 flight DTW>ICN Nov 18 2017. C+ installed at MSP Jan 10-Feb 2 2021.
3502 N502DN Delivered TLS>ATL Sept 1 2017. Entered service and flew the inaugural A350 flight DTW>NRT Oct 30 2017. C+ installed at MSP Feb 17-March 1 2021.
3503 N503DN Delivered TLS>MSP Nov 1 2017. Entered service DTW>NRT Nov 18 2017. Flew the first A350 flight DTW>PEK Jan 17 2018. C+ installed at MSP Feb 2-16 2021.
3504 N504DN Delivered TLS>MSP Nov 29 2017. Entered service DTW>NRT Dec 18 2017. Flew the first A350 flight ATL>ICN on March 24 2018. Flew the first A350 flight LAX>PVG on July 2 2018. C+ installed at MSP March 1-15 2021.
3505 N505DN Delivered TLS>ATL>MSP Dec 12-13 2017. Entered service DTW>NRT Jan 12 2018. C+ installed at MSP March 26-April 9 2021.
3506 N506DN Delivered TLS>ATL Dec 22 2017. Entered service DTW>ICN Feb 7 2018. C+ installed at MSP March 15-26 2021.
3507 N507DN Delivered TLS>ATL Feb 21 2018. Entered service DTW>NRT March 17 2018. C+ installed at MSP Dec 30 2020-Jan 20 2021.
3508 N508DN Delivered TLS>ATL March 6 2018. Entered service DTW>ICN March 30 2018. C+ installed at MSP Jan 17-31 2021.
3509 N509DN Delivered TLS>ATL April 13 2018. Entered service DTW>ICN May 6 2018. C+ installed at MSP Jan 30-Feb 15 2021.
3510 N510DN Delivered TLS>ATL May 24 2018. Entered service DTW>NRT June 16 2018. C+ installed at MSP Feb 15-March 6 2021.
3511 N511DN Delivered TLS>ATL June 14 2018. Entered service DTW>ICN July 7 2018. C+ installed at MSP March 16-April 16 2021.
3512 N512DN Delivered TLS>ATL Jan 26 2019. Entered service ATL>ICN Feb 14 2019. C+ installed at MSP April 17-22 2021.
3513 N513DZ Delivered TLS>ATL March 1 2019. Entered service DTW>AMS March 21 2019. C+ installed at MSP April 22-25 2021.
Note: all A359s with ship numbers 3514 and higher were or will be delivered with C+ installed.
3514 N514DN Delivered TLS>NRT Sept 16-17 2020. Entered service DTW>CDG Oct 17 2020.
3515 N515DN Delivered TLS>AMS Sept 16 2020. Entered revenue service (cargo) NRT>ATL Nov 5 2020 and revenue passenger service ATL>ICN Nov 6 2020.
3516 N516DN Delivered TLS>NRT Jan 26-27 2022. Entered service MSP>DTW Feb 24 2022.
3517 N517DZ Delivered TLS>NGO Feb 1-2 2022…ferried NGO>NRT for induction Feb 12 2022. Entered service DTW>AMS March 7 2022.
3518 N518DZ Delivered TLS>NRT Nov 22-23 2022. Entered service DTW>HND Dec 18 2022.
3519 N519DN Delivered TLS>NRT Dec 16-17 2022. Entered service MSP>PHX Jan 9 2023. ViaSat IFC (prototype).
3520 N520DN Delivered TLS>NRT April 4-5 2023. First aircraft delivered in the latest 35H config...exited NRT-MSP Apr 18 2024. ViaSat IFC.
MSN 661 3521 N521DN...second test flight April 16 2024…special “Team USA” livery…delivery spring 2024.
MSN 673 3522 N522DZ...spotted in special “2028 LA Olympic Games livery” March 23 2024…delivery spring 2024.
MSN 677 3523 N523DN...spotted in full livery w/o engines April 10 2024…delivery spring 2024.
MSN 680 3524 N524DN...Delivery scheduled 2024.
MSN xxx 3525 N525DN...Delivery scheduled 2024.
MSN xxx 3526 N526DN...Delivery scheduled 2024.
MSN xxx 3527 N527DN...Delivery scheduled 2025.
MSN xxx 3528 N528DN...Delivery scheduled 2025.
Upcoming deliveries/orders as of 12/31/23:
2024 7
2025 6
2026 & later 3
Total 16
A350-900 (35L): 9
MSN 024...3568...N568DZ...ex PR-XTA...ferried VCV>SEA>SIN May 5-8 2023 for induction. Induction completed & ferried SIN>SEA>ATL Aug 19-20 2023….entered service ATL>MXP Sept 3 2023. ViaSat IFC.
MSN 027...3569...N569DZ...ex PR-XTB...ferried VCV>SEA>SIN April 13-15 2023 for induction...induction completed & ferried SIN>LAX>ATL July 7 2023...entered service ATL>BCN July 15 2023. ViaSat IFC.
MSN 048...3570...N570DZ...ex A7-AMC/PR-XTE...ferried VCV>SEA>SIN Feb 24-26 2023 for induction...induction completed & ferried SIN>ATL May 17 2023...entered service ATL>CDG May 27 2023. ViaSat IFC.
MSN 064...3571...N571DZ... ex A7-AMB/PR-XTF...ferried VCV>SEA>SIN Jan 12-14 2023 for induction...induction completed & ferried SIN>ATL April 4 2023...entered service ATL>AMS April 15 2023. ViaSat IFC.
MSN 200...3572...N572DZ...ex PR-XTH...ferried VCV>SEA>SIN Nov 9-11 2022 for induction...induction completed & ferried SIN>ATL Jan 20 2023…entered service ATL>GTB Feb 11 2023. ViaSat IFC.
MSN 250...3573...N573DZ...ex PR-XTI…ferried VCV>SEA>SIN Sept 27-29 2022 for induction...induction completed & ferried SIN>ATL Dec 7 2022...entered service DTW>HNL Jan 1 2023. ViaSat IFC.
MSN 265...3574...N574DZ...ex A7-AQA/PR-XTJ...ferried VCV>SEA>SIN June 2-5 2022 for induction...induction completed & ferried SIN>SEA>MSP Aug 19 2022...entered service ATL>SEA Sept 9 2022. 2Ku WiFi.
MSN 282...3575...N575DZ...ex A7-AQB/PR-XTK...ferried VCV>SEA>SIN Feb 11-13 2022 for induction…induction completed & ferried SIN>MSP June 1 2022…entered service ATL>DTW June 13 2022. 2Ku WiFi.
MSN 313...3576...N576DZ...ex A7-AQC/PR-XTL...ferried VCV>SEA>SIN March 10-12 2022 for induction…induction completed & ferried SIN>MSP July 18 2022…entered service ATL>SEA Aug 2 2022. 2Ku WiFi.
*The 9 ex-LATAM frames were refurbished between February 2022 and September 2023…config of the 3-class cabin is D1/30…C+/63…MC/246 for a total of 339 seats.
Best Seats, Amenities, & Experiences on Delta's A350
Oct 1, 2017, 8:47 pm
#601
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: MSP & MCO
Programs: DL PM & NRSA, AA Gold, ANA Plat, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold, National EC Exec, GE, CLEAR
Posts: 1,225
I follow your logic, but I disagree with the conclusion.
I can agree that a 2-3-2 PS configuration would be better.
With all those already complaining about the width of the suites, I think the inch difference makes a very real difference. A350s are also quieter and don't have moronic windows.
I don't think this adds up to being a blanket better experience for premium passengers.
I also don't discount the economy experience in my evaluation of the plane, I think this is especially important for the TPAC routes that it will be flying. And the width difference is not 0.5", it is 0.9". That last inch makes a substantial difference, it is often the difference between being elbowed the entire flight or not.
I can agree that a 2-3-2 PS configuration would be better.
With all those already complaining about the width of the suites, I think the inch difference makes a very real difference. A350s are also quieter and don't have moronic windows.
I don't think this adds up to being a blanket better experience for premium passengers.
I also don't discount the economy experience in my evaluation of the plane, I think this is especially important for the TPAC routes that it will be flying. And the width difference is not 0.5", it is 0.9". That last inch makes a substantial difference, it is often the difference between being elbowed the entire flight or not.
Oct 1, 2017, 11:50 pm
#602
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond 1.7MM, Starlux Insighter, Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,944
I’m counfounded by this cynicism about the A350.
I’m reserving judgment on the suites until I try one, although I would have been perfectly happy with a B/E Super Diamond or similar.
But really, what plane would people rather Delta fly? The 787 with narrower seats, idiotic windows, and a narrow cabin to fit whatever business class product?
I’m reserving judgment on the suites until I try one, although I would have been perfectly happy with a B/E Super Diamond or similar.
But really, what plane would people rather Delta fly? The 787 with narrower seats, idiotic windows, and a narrow cabin to fit whatever business class product?
Oct 2, 2017, 1:55 pm
#603
Join Date: Apr 2016
Programs: None yet
Posts: 79
strange specs regarding A350's range:
On delta's website, their A350 has a range of 8,000 mi (6951 nmi). This is way shorter than A350's official range 9321mi (8000 nmi)... Its range is even shorter than Delta's 777-200ER, which is 8542mi (7422 nmi)?
Does it mean A350-900 is less capable than 777-200ER?
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...rbus-a350.html
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...200er-777.html
On delta's website, their A350 has a range of 8,000 mi (6951 nmi). This is way shorter than A350's official range 9321mi (8000 nmi)... Its range is even shorter than Delta's 777-200ER, which is 8542mi (7422 nmi)?
Does it mean A350-900 is less capable than 777-200ER?
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...rbus-a350.html
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...200er-777.html
Oct 2, 2017, 2:00 pm
#604
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: LON, PDX
Programs: DL PM, AS MVP 75K, HH/SPG/MR Gold, Amex Plat, PRG, CSR
Posts: 2,064
strange specs regarding A350's range:
On delta's website, their A350 has a range of 8,000 mi (6951 nmi). This is way shorter than A350's official range 9321mi (8000 nmi)... Its range is even shorter than Delta's 777-200ER, which is 8542mi (7422 nmi)?
Does it mean A350-900 is less capable than 777-200ER?
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...rbus-a350.html
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...200er-777.html
On delta's website, their A350 has a range of 8,000 mi (6951 nmi). This is way shorter than A350's official range 9321mi (8000 nmi)... Its range is even shorter than Delta's 777-200ER, which is 8542mi (7422 nmi)?
Does it mean A350-900 is less capable than 777-200ER?
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...rbus-a350.html
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...200er-777.html
Here I think Occam's Razor dictates that the "8000 miles" written on the page refers with poor form to the 8000 nmi range of the plane, rather than a heretofore unbeknownst range specification.
Not only is the A359's range longer, it has at least 14% better fuel burn and carries 15 more seats in Delta's configuration than the 772ER, making the CASM far superior.
Last edited by C W; Oct 2, 2017 at 2:10 pm
Oct 2, 2017, 5:32 pm
#605
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
Posts: 1,313
I follow your logic, but I disagree with the conclusion.
I can agree that a 2-3-2 PS configuration would be better.
With all those already complaining about the width of the suites, I think the inch difference makes a very real difference. A350s are also quieter and don't have moronic windows.
I don't think this adds up to being a blanket better experience for premium passengers.
I also don't discount the economy experience in my evaluation of the plane, I think this is especially important for the TPAC routes that it will be flying. And the width difference is not 0.5", it is 0.9". That last inch makes a substantial difference, it is often the difference between being elbowed the entire flight or not.
I can agree that a 2-3-2 PS configuration would be better.
With all those already complaining about the width of the suites, I think the inch difference makes a very real difference. A350s are also quieter and don't have moronic windows.
I don't think this adds up to being a blanket better experience for premium passengers.
I also don't discount the economy experience in my evaluation of the plane, I think this is especially important for the TPAC routes that it will be flying. And the width difference is not 0.5", it is 0.9". That last inch makes a substantial difference, it is often the difference between being elbowed the entire flight or not.
Oh, you mean the moronic, larger 787 windows that I prefer 100 out of 100 times over standard windows? And the extremely similar noise levels that are basically impossible to quantify? If you're going to build an argument, it can't stand on highly subjective opinions.
The true Y width difference is 0.5" with identical aisle widths. That's personal width per person at roughly the torso height, not misleading measurements like "seat width" which is measured between the armrests.
So yes, for the loss of 0.5" in Y-, DL passengers may have had identical - or nearly identical - J cabins and a far superior W cabin if DL had gone with the 787.
Oct 2, 2017, 5:47 pm
#606
Join Date: Apr 2011
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The A350 page has been riddled with previously noted errors.
Here I think Occam's Razor dictates that the "8000 miles" written on the page refers with poor form to the 8000 nmi range of the plane, rather than a heretofore unbeknownst range specification.
Not only is the A359's range longer, it has at least 14% better fuel burn and carries 15 more seats in Delta's configuration than the 772ER, making the CASM far superior.
Here I think Occam's Razor dictates that the "8000 miles" written on the page refers with poor form to the 8000 nmi range of the plane, rather than a heretofore unbeknownst range specification.
Not only is the A359's range longer, it has at least 14% better fuel burn and carries 15 more seats in Delta's configuration than the 772ER, making the CASM far superior.
Oct 2, 2017, 6:17 pm
#607
Join Date: Sep 2016
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Not only is the A359's range longer, it has at least 14% better fuel burn when the types are compared across airlines. Note this fuel burn is not per seat, but for the entire aircraft.
In Delta's configuration it carries 15 more seats than the 772ER, making the presumptive CASM far superior.
Oct 2, 2017, 6:38 pm
#608
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J cabins are not always 100% efficient throughout the cross-section. Width adjustments can be made in other areas, like the aisle for example. Since the A350 and 787 have the smallest difference in cabin width among widebodies, it's not a guarantee that the same style of J seat would be different sizes. And then on top of that, any difference would have to be noticeable. All speculative.
Oh, you mean the moronic, larger 787 windows that I prefer 100 out of 100 times over standard windows? And the extremely similar noise levels that are basically impossible to quantify? If you're going to build an argument, it can't stand on highly subjective opinions.
The true Y width difference is 0.5" with identical aisle widths. That's personal width per person at roughly the torso height, not misleading measurements like "seat width" which is measured between the armrests.
So yes, for the loss of 0.5" in Y-, DL passengers may have had identical - or nearly identical - J cabins and a far superior W cabin if DL had gone with the 787.
Oh, you mean the moronic, larger 787 windows that I prefer 100 out of 100 times over standard windows? And the extremely similar noise levels that are basically impossible to quantify? If you're going to build an argument, it can't stand on highly subjective opinions.
The true Y width difference is 0.5" with identical aisle widths. That's personal width per person at roughly the torso height, not misleading measurements like "seat width" which is measured between the armrests.
So yes, for the loss of 0.5" in Y-, DL passengers may have had identical - or nearly identical - J cabins and a far superior W cabin if DL had gone with the 787.
Yes, I do mean the windows that are centrally controllable by the crew and never fully darken. The A350 also has oversized windows, that are actually wider than 787 windows, but that have real window shades.
Noise levels are absolutely quantifiable! I could talk for hours about frequency and time weightings, but I'll spare everybody. You're right that people perceive different sounds and combinations of frequencies differently, but the distributions and causes behind those preferences are also quantifiable. Generally speaking, the A350 is about 6db quieter at cruise than the 787.
I would reiterate your own point about differing utilizations of space, aisle widths, and cabin cross section with regards to the economy cabin. I have never found Boeing armrests to be more generous than Airbus's, quite the opposite. And while the seats are truly 0.9" wider, even if they were 0.5" wider, the preference is still unambiguous.
I don't disagree with you about the W cabin. But the A350 is equal or possibly better, but not likely worse, in J and far better in Y.
I would also argue that the 0.9" difference in Y makes a larger difference to each Y passenger than the difference in W makes to each W passenger. This is because W passengers are already not as closely confined, therefore their marginal utility of additional space is lower. 17.1" seats are extremely uncomfortable even for normal and skinny people and moving to 18" makes a very real difference, giving the extra 0.9" a higher marginal utility. This is evident when flying the planes or perusing Seatguru comments.
United has tons of 787s if you really love that plane
Last edited by C W; Oct 2, 2017 at 6:45 pm
Oct 2, 2017, 6:45 pm
#609
Join Date: Jun 2014
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And the extremely similar noise levels that are basically impossible to quantify?
Oct 11, 2017, 5:19 pm
#612
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Oct 12, 2017, 12:55 am
#613
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Oct 12, 2017, 3:54 am
#615
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the A350 only brings in the bad for elites or Loyal Delta flyers
1. No Comfort Plus- HUGE slap in the face.
2. Premium Select is a waste of space and not worth paying the rather large premium for. Would you rather be middle seat in Premium Select or aisle in Comfort plus on a 767?
3. No awards.... NONE! there were some mistake awards in the beginning. now an A350 will set you back 160K-200K miles where 80K was available on the 747.
4. The product is not really better. Is this product which I perceive inferior to the Reverse Herringbone worth 200-250% more miles? Ive flown the seat on SAS.. not bad but nothing to write home about and many of agreed...Who needs the door!? When I'm on AA 777-300 in J I cannot see anyone anyway. The door is for the flight attendants to shut us out?
5. 9 across in coach will be cramped compared to the 777, 767 and will not offer 2 seats alone like the A330 did. Definite improvement in coach of 747 but not by much.
So Delta has it's propaganda rolling on how amazing this aircraft is and they ill make you pay a fortune to be comfortable in it. with less options at a much higher price.. $$ or miles. You will have to pay more.
1. No Comfort Plus- HUGE slap in the face.
2. Premium Select is a waste of space and not worth paying the rather large premium for. Would you rather be middle seat in Premium Select or aisle in Comfort plus on a 767?
3. No awards.... NONE! there were some mistake awards in the beginning. now an A350 will set you back 160K-200K miles where 80K was available on the 747.
4. The product is not really better. Is this product which I perceive inferior to the Reverse Herringbone worth 200-250% more miles? Ive flown the seat on SAS.. not bad but nothing to write home about and many of agreed...Who needs the door!? When I'm on AA 777-300 in J I cannot see anyone anyway. The door is for the flight attendants to shut us out?
5. 9 across in coach will be cramped compared to the 777, 767 and will not offer 2 seats alone like the A330 did. Definite improvement in coach of 747 but not by much.
So Delta has it's propaganda rolling on how amazing this aircraft is and they ill make you pay a fortune to be comfortable in it. with less options at a much higher price.. $$ or miles. You will have to pay more.
