LegalTender

I measured it at 30". SeatGuru claims "30-31."

On a transcon, it's beyond oppressive.

Is this what C+ has given us?

Sabai

This is what airline consolidation has done to the travelling public:

http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pag...-12-08-01.aspx

Sabai

dupe - pls delete

kop84

This is what people demanding low fares have given us. A small handful may be willing to pay a few rubles more for more room, but the vast majority of the traveling public book on 1)Price 2)Schedule. Everything after that is barely considered until they are in their tiny seat and can't imagine why their $200 transcon ticket doesn't get them 1970's Pan Am service.

Bagels

It's kinda hard to make that argument when profits and margins are at record highs (post de-regulation), prices continue to swell and yet personal space decreases.

Just as is the argument 'travel is a bargain today because in 19__" -- reality is, the legacy carriers have shed the legacy cost structure. It's like arguing "MacBooks are BARGAINS -- do you realize what a laptop cost 20 years ago?"

kop84

Consolidation has definitely allowed for a more profitable industry.

But I believe that if you look at the growth rate of NK, you'll see that people want the lowest price ticket, and they'll deal with everything else after the fact.

It would be interesting (and a huge anti-trust violation) to see two airlines price a route $5 different to see how tickets sell.

jdrtravel

^^^^^^ Finally, a sane response to all of the nonsense. THANK YOU! IMO, this is a perfect example of a need for government regulation. There should be a minimum of 33" pitch and 18" width in all seats. This would prevent a race to the bottom.

kop84

Passengers are driving airlines to the bottom. NK would have...wait for it... Never gotten off the ground, if passengers valued their comfort more than their pocket books.

The need for government regulation is basically the same argument sports owner's make when it comes to needing a salary cap...they need to be saved from themselves.

If an airlines seat pitch was decreased and the market moved away from them and more business went to the airline with larger seats, then it would signal the airlines people want larger seats and are willing to pay for it....that has not been the case at all.

jrkmsp

Pitch really does vary based on your position on the plane, relative to F, Y+, the exit rows and other bulkheads. For instance, I have a very large carseat for my almost 2-year-old that I use on the plane all the time. It's best on a Maddog, worst on a 75H/D. But it all differs based on where you're sitting related to the immovable objects in the cabin.

LegalTender

I try everything I can to stay out of 739's.

Ability to open a 13" laptop is basic.

jrl767

unfortunately, the race started a long time ago, and it seems the only remaining question is how far away the bottom really is ... regulation will neither answer that question nor prevent airlines from continuing to play the "caveat emptor" card

further, we FT regulars aren't really representative of the majority of the traveling public: just because we may think some things make sense for our particular travel patterns and preferences doesn't always mean that those things align well (if at all) with the business and economics perspectives of the airlines

the converse proved false about 12 years ago: AA took two rows out of the coach cabin to increase pitch by 2-3 inches ("More Room Throughout Coach"), and couldn't make enough of a profit to keep that comfort feature in the fleet

bubbashow

I think part of it has to do with the fact that MOST people fly so infrequently and don't pay attention to any part of the process or the experience. I was on a plane two weeks ago listening to the conversation behind me about it was "nice being on a 747 again". It was a 737-800. People have no clue. They remember the experience was bad, but don't remember specifics enough or travel enough to make a difference.

I think I am a fairly-high-spend flyer (compared to most in the public). I ACTIVELY book away from 10x 777's and 9x 787. In fact, I generally try to book away from Boeing product now (I agree with the OP that the 739 is AWFUL). My behavior has been changed because of what the airlines have done to their layouts. Problem is, there are very few like me. Until there are more, the race to the bottom continues.

Ma and Pa Kettle going to Orlando or Vegas once every five years aren't going to remember a thing. Look at who is filling NK's planes - it isn't a lot of business people.

Bagels

I don't disagree that price is a motivating factor in ticket purchases, but that doesn't explain why passenger space is continuing to decrease as ticket prices (including average auxiliary fees) continue to swell and airline profits & margins are are record highs (post deregulation).

We're paying more for less simply to increase profit margins, while some hedge fund manager reminds us that the industry needs to make up for years of lost profits -- even though stake holders are completely different.

Good thing AS/VX are merging -- less competition is good!

jdrtravel

Does this tired old supply and demand argument have any limits?

AANYC1981

30" in C+? I thought 30" was regular coach?