Chadg

Delta announced today that they will re-inaugurate daily service to Seoul-Incheon from Atlanta using 777-200LR aircraft beginning June 3, 2017 to complement Korean's daily service.

http://news.delta.com/delta-korean-a...-flights-seoul

WhiskeyBravo

I got shut down in another thread, but I really believe DL is gunning to setup a JV with KE and setup a Pacific hub at ICN. Everyone knows PVG is a joke and the Chinese couldn't give 2 ..... about DL.

Chadg

I think ICN would be a lot better than PVG simply because of the current status of lack of Open Skies with China that has so far prevented approval of LAX - PEK and the hassle of having to get a Chinese visa for US citizens, even though it is now for 10 years.

Tanaka07

Awesome news!! When will DL move PDX-NRT over to PDX-ICN?

Longboater

From the article,

The rapprochement between KE and DL is apparently now a reality with the change in CEO, daytime HND flying, and wind down of NRT. A JV doesn't sound too out of the realm of possibility. Expanded codeshare is an important step towards a revenue sharing JV. If this does proceed to a JV, NRT is done. If NRT is to shut down, what happens to NRT-Beach Markets? Is HNL-ICN replacing HNL-NRT/NGO/KIX/FUK a possibility?

ATOBTTR

Hopefully "expanded partnership" includes bringing KE out of Group 4 and will net MQMs.

flyerCO

Find the timing a little bit off for a partnership. Both flights leave ATL within a hour of each other. The flights from ICN though provide an option to leave either morning (KE) or early evening (DL).

Duke787

Agreed - I think perhaps this is a test run to slowly thaw the relationship.

With the drawdown of NRT, DL is going to get killed on TPAC/Asia. However, a JV with KE would make them a formidable opponent vs. NH/UA and JL/AA. ICN is a logical stopping point from a GC standpoint from ATL, DTW, and SEA.

flyerCO

I think DL thought that by buying into MU they would get the Chinese to work with them. I believe they're now finding out what an awful choice MU was. I really don't think any amount of work would get them to be even a decent airline. I recently flew BKK-PVG-LAX. BKK-PVG was operated by MU's subsidy Shanghai Airlines (FM) and PVG-LAX by MU on their brand new 777. When I got into PVG I was sick (vomit, fever, etc sick) and was in no shape for a flight. I went to the lounge and asked could they get me rebooked for the following day. It took about 1 hour but they said it was done, but someone needed to take me through a secure area back to the international arrival side. I would then get BPs, a hotel, and be shown to immigration to get transit visa processed.

Got to the transit desk to get BP, hotel information, etc. I was informed nothing had been done, and that the lounge shouldn't have offered to help. I then spent 4 hours arguing with the MU Manager that I shouldn't have to pay to change flight to the next days flight I was already told I was now on. She saw me throw up at least twice. I also pointed out that if I flew and continued down this road my blood sugar could drop severely and they would then have to divert and land. She flat out didn't care. Finally I called the DL DM line. Even though it was a MU J ticket, they took it over, and booked me on the DL codeshare to LAX that was the actual MU flight I had been told I was on by the lounge. Told the agent to look in the system, and while I don't speak Mandarin I could tell there were choice words uttered. I then asked for a hotel since MU provides them to all J class passengers with an overnight. She was really pissed, but processed it and told the agent to take me over to immigration after giving me the BP for the new flight. My bags had been loaded onto that nights LAX flight, and while they would be offloaded, they weren't available to be picked up since still at the plane. Was informed to go to hotel, and get there early the next day and checkin agent would get bags sent up and then checked in for new flight. Showed up three hours before the flight and went to the MU J/F checkin. (No signs tell you that you can go there, you just have to know that you can skip the normal check-in positions) Sat in the chair and it took 1 hour to say they couldn't find the bags. There also was an issue with the ticket reissue, which required calling DL. Finally at 1 hour to departure they magically found my bags, brought them up, and checked them in. I was rushed through exit immigration, security (who tried to take my truck key since it was too long!), and sent by cart to the bus gate since of course a major flight like LAX was parked three miles away from the terminal. Of course the flight was normal MU suckiness. WIFI is free, but doesn't work and you have to get a code from FA. Decent 1st meal, but then instead of waiting till 1-2 hours before landing for the 2nd meal, they wake up the entire cabin turning on full lights at 3 in the morning (over 6.5 hours before landing) to serve the 2nd meal.

Longboater

I should add once this service starts next summer, we may see an accelerated end of 747 operated DTW-ICN. I think a big reason why DTW-ICN has been a daily 747 for the past several years is that its been the only flight from the eastern US to ICN, in addition to DTW's auto traffic to South Korea. Also, I wouldn't rule out LAX-ICN happening in the near future, especially with the 25 A350-900s. Its a given the first six will replace the remaining 747 routes ex-DTW next year. The remaining 19 have to fly somewhere.

agjil

Agreed, DTW does not have heavy O/D traffic, so if DL routes eastern US traffic via ATL, there's a high chance the DTW-ICN route will get killed along with the retirement of the 744s.

DLMiddleSeats

I always wondered why DL/KE would leave so much money on the table for so long not forming a JV. From my understanding there were some hurt feelings a the DL/NW merger when all of a sudden DL acquired a huge TPAC presence but it just seemed so logical for several years now especially as long as the US/China can't come to an open skies agreement plus the PVG airspace is a mess

Longboater

I don't agree DTW-ICN will be dropped altogether but downgauged to a smaller gauge, i.e. a A332/777, at least before enough A350-900s show up. There's enough auto traffic to fill the front, hence DTW-NGO continues to exist. With this move its increasingly likely DTW-PVG will be the first or second A350-900 route. DTW-NRT will alter between 744 and A332 this winter. If NRT is fully drawn down, DTW-NRT will definitely continue to exist due to the market but it may continue with only a A332 operating it. Routes like DTW-ICN/PEK/PVG are much stronger long term, hence they'll probably end up as A350 routes over the next few years.

flyerCO

I think another main sticking point was and possibly still is that Korean companies have different cultures from US companies. Most major Korean companies are family run operations and very customer oriented. It's not 100% about the $ for them.

Longboater

KE was not happy with DL after they nearly stole JAL from One World. We'd be having a much different discussion today if JAL/DL were in a JV. I think its the timing with HND opening up, the Yen devaluation accelerating the withdrawal from the Japanese market, and a new CEO. Had Ed been running the show for the past eight years, a JV with KE might have already happened. DL had a good relationship prior to the merger with KE and Ed was definitely in the minority of wanting to have closer ties with KE and have the West Coast Pacific hub at LAX instead of SEA. Well, LAX definitely will be a secondary Pacific hub in the future as DL will operate LAX-PEK in one form or the other.