Giving an Int'l D1 seat to spouse?

Old Sep 7, 16, 10:58 am
  #61  
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Originally Posted by thesaints View Post
unless the IRS can prove that the OP's wife performed work for the company it is not possible to define the J ticket as "compensation", or "income".
It could be a "donation" from the company to the wife, but only if there is evidence that the husband acted as an intermediary and planned to do so.
Otherwise it is a donation from husband to wife.
Nope, it would be a "donation" from the company. Sorry, but the IRS is well versed at the little "tricks" to try and not have something taxed. They would consider it taxable income for him. Again, it's unlikely they will ever know. However that doesn't change the fact that it still becomes taxable. It's basically no different a type of scam then someone who says I'll sell you an envelope for $1000, but the envelope happens to have $1000 tickets in it. They know who the value is going to (if they find out) and will consider it taxable for the employee. No different then if the company gave the employee $4000 and said book a ticket for your wife. The $4000 would be taxable income.

I even verified with someone who works with the IRS doing audits. They would consider it taxable income if they find out.
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Old Sep 7, 16, 11:34 am
  #62  
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Originally Posted by thesaints View Post
Following the same philosophy, no doubt neither you, nor your CEO, take advantage of drinks in J and you both make sure of getting sufficient sleep.
Actually we have a policy on that even when not on a plane. 2 alcoholic beverages will be reimbursed. Anymore and the whole expense claim will be denied.

Originally Posted by thesaints View Post
What about on Sunday nights ? Is the ethical employee ("indentured servant" ?) bound to go to bed earlier, to recover from the weekend excesses ?

You guys remind me of companies codes of conduct in the early industrialized world. Employees were required to maintain virtuous households and not to engage in any disreputable activities including following the wrong religion and contracting debts.
I stand by my post. If you want to find a way round rules one can. I choose not too. Our company rules are good and yet strict. I choose to abide by them - well what about this, well what about that - well what about - come on.

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Old Sep 7, 16, 12:04 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Then the employer says the following: We hope you don't object but we're no longer going to reimburse premium cabin fares.
Then OP ends up flying in coach. He was planning to fly in coach anyway.

(Plus, he gets to ride in the same cabin as wife, and company doesn't have to pay for a more expensive ticket. Everyone wins.)
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Old Sep 7, 16, 12:24 pm
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Talking

Me reading this thread:
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Old Sep 7, 16, 12:25 pm
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Originally Posted by UKtravelbear View Post

If the OP failed to perform at his business meeting his employer would soon find out as the client would likely tell them "hey Jack Fred was tired at the meeting why the heck am I paying you guys to fly in Business class for???"
I can't speak for everyone, but for me even a business class flat bed east-bound doesnt make for a good night's rest. Can't expect a lot of people to be fresh as a daisy at 10am in London after a five hour red-eye from New York, regardless of the cabin they flew in.
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Old Sep 7, 16, 12:48 pm
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Originally Posted by us2 View Post
This thread is something else.
When the stated speed limit is 55mph, I know very well that going over it is against the law and may get me a ticket. But I also know that law enforcement has a different limit - they won't pull me over unless I'm well over 62mph. So if I stick to driving at 60mph, I am technically against the law, but the law enforcers will not come after me, which doesn't mean what I am doing is right. This is the "grey zone." You can tell me that if I know that I am wrong, then I should drive at 55. For which I'll just say "sure thing!" and continue driving at 60 anyway as long as I know it's safe. Would it get me a ticket one day? Probably. But the odds are slim.

OP, do what you feel is right, and just don't talk about it. Talk to the FA first if you want to. 99% of the people here have driven in that grey zone and are mostly here to say "no, I'm the righteous one that will never do anything wrong." Besides, those who are firmly against it will most likely say nothing even if they see the switch in front of them - they will just come to Flyertalk and complain about it.
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Old Sep 7, 16, 12:54 pm
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this thread has gone bonkers....

OP check your PM
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Old Sep 7, 16, 3:08 pm
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
Nope, it would be a "donation" from the company. Sorry, but the IRS is well versed at the little "tricks" to try and not have something taxed. They would consider it taxable income for him. Again, it's unlikely they will ever know. However that doesn't change the fact that it still becomes taxable. It's basically no different a type of scam then someone who says I'll sell you an envelope for $1000, but the envelope happens to have $1000 tickets in it. They know who the value is going to (if they find out) and will consider it taxable for the employee. No different then if the company gave the employee $4000 and said book a ticket for your wife. The $4000 would be taxable income.

I even verified with someone who works with the IRS doing audits. They would consider it taxable income if they find out.
How can it be donation from the company to the wife ? It is the husband who chose to give her the ticket and at any time he could have chosen to sit in D1 himself!
The only way would be to prove that there was previous understanding between company and employee that the wife would have been the beneficiary of the ticket.
Your parallel with the $1000 does nit fit the case at hand in the least.
A valid one would be a company which flies in a consultant and gives him a business class ticket (and writes it off as business expense). The consultant exchanges it for Y tickets for himself and wife.
Can the company still write off the entire amount ? Of course!!! How would they possibly know what the guy is doing with his ticket ?


Originally Posted by GRALISTAIR View Post
Actually we have a policy on that even when not on a plane. 2 alcoholic beverages will be reimbursed. Anymore and the whole expense claim will be denied.



I stand by my post. If you want to find a way round rules one can. I choose not too. Our company rules are good and yet strict. I choose to abide by them - well what about this, well what about that - well what about - come on.

end of !
Yeah, but in F all drinks are complimentary and my point is that the rule you abide by is imaginary. In particular, it is imagined by you.
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Old Sep 7, 16, 4:32 pm
  #69  
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Originally Posted by SEUS777 View Post
How on in the world would the employer or IRS ever find out if you switch seats mid flight? Tell your wife to enjoy the ride up front and worry about more important things!

Fraud?
It's also probably cheaper for the company than a year of marriage counseling on the company's health insurance.
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Old Sep 7, 16, 4:56 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
The issue is that your employer bought YOU a D1 ticket for business purposes. It's fraud to give it to a spouse and technically doing so creates a tax liability for you and a reporting requirement for your company. In some organizations this could be grounds for termination.
I can't even wait to read the whole thread before responding. I'm sure many others have already pointed this out: This is a totally insane comment.

You will have no issue giving your wife the seat. You will have many issues in your marriage if you don't.
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Old Sep 7, 16, 5:04 pm
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Originally Posted by thesaints View Post
Yeah, but in F all drinks are complimentary and my point is that the rule you abide by is imaginary. In particular, it is imagined by you.
Good job it is a free world when I last checked. You think what you want and carry on with the ad hominems.
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Old Sep 7, 16, 5:35 pm
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You said it right: "It's a free world". Slavery and servitude have been eliminated. Employment is regulated by contracts. Other than achieving results and performing tasks, as contracted, people are free to live their lives as they want (enjoying and suffering the consequences of their decisions). An employer cannot tell me what to wear, how to best sleep, or what TV shows to watch outside of work hours. Nor can they tell me how to spend and not to spend my compensation.

Of course, by the same token, people are free to feel a special attachment to their employer. But it is their individual choice and it is not mandated by laws.
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Old Sep 7, 16, 5:38 pm
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A lot of armchair lawyers here.

Re fraud, it hasn't been stated why the policy exists. It may be to have employees be rested after the flight, productive during the flight, or both.

On the other hand, maybe the employer's attitude is "you have a tough job and we want to be happy and not quit and join a competitor or burn out and take a job that doesn't involve travel". Or perhaps "we would like to pay you more, but that creates some internal issues, but instead, go nuts with the T&E". No fraud. We don't know which.

Re taxability, it is taxable, open and shut.

For those who wonder if there are any cases, there are few involving frequent-flier miles, but Charley v. Commissioner from 1996 is somewhat on point. Charley was entitled to fly in first class to travel to clients. He would buy a first class ticket, submit the receipt for it, then exchange it for a coach ticket, upgrade it to first using his miles, and pocket the cash difference.

The difference, the Tax Court and Ninth Circuit held, is taxable income.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1205767.html
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Old Sep 7, 16, 5:44 pm
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You shouldn't expect a problem as long as you're okay with not walking between cabins at all during flight. Even one time to give something to your wife and the FAs could tell you to switch.
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Old Sep 7, 16, 6:09 pm
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Originally Posted by Spent_All_My_Miles View Post
Re fraud, it hasn't been stated why the policy exists. It may be to have employees be rested after the flight, productive during the flight, or both.
Even in that case it is not up to the company to define how an employee should best rest. As productivity is concerned, that could be an easier case, but if the employee is productive while sitting in Y the company cannot force him to sit in J.

.

For those who wonder if there are any cases, there are few involving frequent-flier miles, but Charley v. Commissioner from 1996 is somewhat on point. Charley was entitled to fly in first class to travel to clients. He would buy a first class ticket, submit the receipt for it, then exchange it for a coach ticket, upgrade it to first using his miles, and pocket the cash difference.

The difference, the Tax Court and Ninth Circuit held, is taxable income.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1205767.html
absolutely! The difference between flight cost and reimbursement received, if positive, is compensation and as such taxable. But that does not involve the employer, unless part of a scheme to understate compensation.
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