FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles-665/)
-   -   All suite business class in 2017 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1785016-all-suite-business-class-2017-a.html)

gleeforglia Aug 16, 16 6:43 am

All suite business class in 2017
 
Interesting:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/tr...ghts.html?_r=0

Also, I wish my hair looked as good as the lady in the photo on a long haul flight...or a short haul one...

vincentharris Aug 16, 16 6:52 am

It is all the ME3's fault :)

Guess DL is starting to feel pressure from foreign airlines, plus Qatar in ATL now, and an airport authority/mayor who is not allowing DL to have the majority in town. (Both were quoted saying they are courting other airlines to ATL, because a world class airport needs options blah blah blah etc)

Its good they are going on the offensive rather then defensive (sooner then later) on enhancements that are positive.

dzflyer Aug 16, 16 6:54 am


Originally Posted by gleeforglia (Post 27071720)
Interesting:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/tr...ghts.html?_r=0

Also, I wish my hair looked as good as the lady in the photo on a long haul flight...or a short haul one...

Cool idea for sure. The only hilarious comment was we want to make this as close to flying a peronal jet as possible lol. Not even close. Just stop with the outlandish propoganda statements already.

dzflyer Aug 16, 16 6:58 am


Originally Posted by vincentharris (Post 27071745)
It is all the ME3's fault :)

Guess DL is starting to feel pressure from foreign airlines, plus Qatar in ATL now, and an airport authority/mayor who is not allowing DL to have the majority in town. (Both were quoted saying they are courting other airlines to ATL, because a world class airport needs options blah blah blah etc)

Its good they are going on the offensive rather then defensive (sooner then later) on enhancements that are positive.

I also think its a positive step for delta to up its game finally. I also want the comment "this new cabin will cost the same as the existing D1 cabin" in writing:D

TerryK Aug 16, 16 7:05 am

Why is it called all-Suite? :confused: Is DL planning to fly A350 with Suites only? :confused: Hard to believe.

Agremeister Aug 16, 16 7:15 am


Originally Posted by TerryK (Post 27071797)
Why is it called all-Suite? :confused: Is DL planning to fly A350 with Suites only? :confused: Hard to believe.

because every business class seat is a suite, hence all-suite business class?

jrkmsp Aug 16, 16 7:23 am

I'm very curious to find out if Delta intends to eventually roll the suites out to the A333/A339 and the 764s. The timeline for the A339s is delivery from 2019 forward, so they're a long ways away. And presumably the A333s are still half a decade or more away from an interior refresh. So they could just be sitting on the details — otherwise it represents a major shift in Delta strategy, where routes truly become isolated to plane type.

Whatever the case, I highly doubt any of the 763s will see suites.

aa4ever Aug 16, 16 7:25 am

Very nice! Strange way to (soft) launch it though - via a somewhat vague NYT article. You'd think they'd want to wait and reveal the entire thing at one coordinated event - especially considering that their seats are currently competitive and they don't need to try to delay moves to other J class products.

rylan Aug 16, 16 7:28 am

All-suite in that all of the D1 seats would have this privacy door. Sounds like they are using a different seat configuration that has the door instead of the Thompson Vantage XL seat that was speculated to be on the A350??

rylan Aug 16, 16 7:29 am


Originally Posted by aa4ever (Post 27071871)
Very nice! Strange way to (soft) launch it though - via a somewhat vague NYT article. You'd think they'd want to wait and reveal the entire thing at one coordinated event - especially considering that their seats are currently competitive and they don't need to try to delay moves to other J class products.

Yeah if its coming as early as next year with the 350s and with the refurbs to the 777s, then you'd think they would make a big announcement out of it.

koreanair720 Aug 16, 16 7:30 am

Odd factual error? Says there are only two classes on DL...what about comfort +?

vincentharris Aug 16, 16 7:51 am


Originally Posted by aa4ever (Post 27071871)
Very nice! Strange way to (soft) launch it though - via a somewhat vague NYT article. You'd think they'd want to wait and reveal the entire thing at one coordinated event - especially considering that their seats are currently competitive and they don't need to try to delay moves to other J class products.

The seats are competitive or the service?

Because one of those 2 is definitely FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR away from reality. :D

pvn Aug 16, 16 8:02 am

sounds like they're just going to duct-tape a door to the D1 seat.

aa4ever Aug 16, 16 8:08 am


Originally Posted by vincentharris (Post 27071954)
The seats are competitive or the service?

Because one of those 2 is definitely FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR away from reality. :D

The seats!

That said, I think the service is fairly competitive -- for sure with AA/UA, but also with a good chunk of the TATL carriers they compete with. TPAC's a different story.

lfyang Aug 16, 16 8:14 am

This is definitely a positive move - product product, not a price upgrade.

GRALISTAIR Aug 16, 16 8:16 am


Originally Posted by rylan (Post 27071887)
Yeah if its coming as early as next year with the 350s and with the refurbs to the 777s, then you'd think they would make a big announcement out of it.

I think they needed to make an announcement now and get two bites of the cherry with a further big announcement - after last week they needed some good news.

jrkmsp Aug 16, 16 8:16 am

More details from Delta:

http://news.delta.com/delta-introduc...elta-one-suite


  • A full-height door at every suite
  • Sliding privacy dividers between center suites
  • In-suite, customizable ambient lighting
  • Dedicated stowage compartments for shoes, headphones and laptops
  • Contemporary design featuring premium trim and finishes
  • Memory foam-enhanced comfort cushion
  • An 18-inch, high resolution in-flight entertainment monitor, the largest among U.S. carriers
  • A universal power outlet and high-powered USB port at every seat

http://news.delta.com/sites/default/..._CAM15_NYT.jpg

inthecloud Aug 16, 16 8:18 am

Based on the fleet plans to replace 747s with 350-900, and based on the fact that the article quotes that only flights over 12 hours will have the suite product, I wouldn't expect any 330 or 767 fleets to get this product.
Not only do these fleets fly shorter routes, but the width of the fuselage of the 777 and 359 are both 2-3 meters wider than the 767 and 330 fleets.

rylan Aug 16, 16 8:22 am

I wonder if they're using the Thompson Vantage XL seats modified with a door? Or does this mean its an entirely different seat/suite all together than we've been thinking?

I see they also mentioned 32 J seats. Would've thought they'd have more on the 350. I wonder what the cabin config is going to end up, since there is speculation that this will also have the first 'real' Premium Econ seats.

jrkmsp Aug 16, 16 8:25 am


Originally Posted by inthecloud (Post 27072069)
Based on the fleet plans to replace 747s with 350-900, and based on the fact that the article quotes that only flights over 12 hours will have the suite product, I wouldn't expect any 330 or 767 fleets to get this product.
Not only do these fleets fly shorter routes, but the width of the fuselage of the 777 and 359 are both 2-3 meters wider than the 767 and 330 fleets.

I guess what I'm wondering is if that's a long-term plan, or just a current justification for the difference. And we all know A332s fly flights over 12 hours often. Curiously, the Delta press release is silent on all of this — including the 12-hour bit.

3Cforme Aug 16, 16 8:36 am

Not only do these fleets fly shorter routes, but the width of the fuselage of the 777 and 359 are both 2-3 meters wider than the 767 and 330 fleets.

Two-three meters? That's a little exaggerated. Even focusing on fuselage width instead of cabin width, the difference between the narrowest and widest of your four types isn't that great. Fuselage width of a 777 is 6.20 meters. Fuselage width of a 767 is 4.72 meters.

For completeness:

A350, 5.96m

A330, 5.64m

Typical flight distance certainly is a factor for DL (and customers' willingness to pay). Cabin width may be a factor in floor space utilization.

wilsonnyc Aug 16, 16 8:40 am

I must admit, my initial response to the pic in the NYTimes article was more inline with the opinion that stated, "oh weird, looks like they are just putting a door on a somewhat standard business class seat. That could be oddly claustaphobic and uncomfortable". but the followup pics posted from the delta site look great. Looks like a ton of arm/laptop/drink/misc desk space and even the foot well seems somewhat more spacious for an enclosed seat. Looking good!

readywhenyouare Aug 16, 16 8:40 am

I hate to say it but United's new Polaris offerings look nicer than this.

inthecloud Aug 16, 16 8:45 am


Originally Posted by 3Cforme (Post 27072152)
[I]

Two-three meters? That's a little exaggerated. Even focusing on fuselage width instead of cabin width, the difference between the narrowest and widest of your four types isn't that great. Fuselage width of a 777 is 6.20 meters. Fuselage width of a 767 is 4.72 meters.

For completeness:

A350, 5.96m

A330, 5.64m

Typical flight distance certainly is a factor for DL (and customers' willingness to pay). Cabin width may be a factor in floor space utilization.

I see we're splitting hairs on this lovely tuesday morning. Sorry for glancing at numbers and making generalizations, but the premise stands. The 767 lie flats were a struggle to implement in the first place, and feel like a coffin. Good luck adding doors to that.

nichojo Aug 16, 16 9:21 am

Edit: already posted.

nichojo Aug 16, 16 9:23 am


Originally Posted by inthecloud (Post 27072198)
I see we're splitting hairs on this lovely tuesday morning. Sorry for glancing at numbers and making generalizations, but the premise stands. The 767 lie flats were a struggle to implement in the first place, and feel like a coffin. Good luck adding doors to that.


They won't retrofit the 767s.

Longboater Aug 16, 16 9:40 am

I wrote elsewhere on FT, forget which thread/forum, that the A350-900 product will be able to fit the 777 fleet without issue. Seat manufacturers design premium cabins with some commonality and the difference between the A350 and 777 fuselage's is only a few inches. Ditto for the 787/A330.

My main question here is what happens to the current A330 fleet and the future 25 A330NEOs. As seen in the photos, the new D1 product is a heavily modified version of the Thompson Vantage XL seat, a significantly wider seat than its predecessor as seen on DL's 767s. Thompson Aero designed the Vantage XL seat to be modified to fit on cabins as wide as the 777s and as narrow as the A330. According to Thompson Aero's website, the A330/787 Thompson Vantage XL seat is between 1-2 inches narrower than the A350/777 seat. So it is possible DL may choose to eventually install their heavily modified suites on the A330 fleet. I'd find it hard to believe they would not install it on the future A330NEO fleet.

In regards to the 764 fleet, which will probably stay in the fleet for at least ten more years, its possible they could install the new suite product, but the tradeoff would have to involve removing one seat from each row, in effect going from 1-2-1 to 1-1-1. With DL scaling down the size of D1 cabins in an effort to ensure they are comprised of mostly paid passengers and a few using upgrade instruments, it would not surprise me if they take this step of going from 40 D1 seats on the 764 down to 30, while at the same time installing a small cabin of W with a 2-2-2 configuration.

Overall, I am a little surprised how small D1 cabins are now. (Incidentally, AA will have the same number of J seats on their A350s when they debut in late 2018). This begs the question on the size of W. I presumed W would probably be three rows of 2-4-2 seating with leg rests, greater recline, etc. on the A350/777. With a further reduction in the size of D1, I think its very well possible W could end up being four rows, look at CI's 77W configuration.

jrkmsp Aug 16, 16 9:49 am


Originally Posted by Longboater (Post 27072456)
I wrote elsewhere on FT, forget which thread/forum, that the A350-900 product will be able to fit the 777 fleet without issue. Seat manufacturers design premium cabins with some commonality and the difference between the A350 and 777 fuselage's is only a few inches. Ditto for the 787/A330.

My main question here is what happens to the current A330 fleet and the future 25 A330NEOs. As seen in the photos, the new D1 product is a heavily modified version of the Thompson Vantage XL seat, a significantly wider seat than its predecessor as seen on DL's 767s. Thompson Aero designed the Vantage XL seat to be modified to fit on cabins as wide as the 777s and as narrow as the A330. According to Thompson Aero's website, the A330/787 Thompson Vantage XL seat is between 1-2 inches narrower than the A350/777 seat. So it is possible DL may choose to eventually install their heavily modified suites on the A330 fleet. I'd find it hard to believe they would not install it on the future A330NEO fleet.

In regards to the 764 fleet, which will probably stay in the fleet for at least ten more years, its possible they could install the new suite product, but the tradeoff would have to involve removing one seat from each row, in effect going from 1-2-1 to 1-1-1. With DL scaling down the size of D1 cabins in an effort to ensure they are comprised of mostly paid passengers and a few using upgrade instruments, it would not surprise me if they take this step of going from 40 D1 seats on the 764 down to 30, while at the same time installing a small cabin of W with a 2-2-2 configuration.

Overall, I am a little surprised how small D1 cabins are now. (Incidentally, AA will have the same number of J seats on their A350s when they debut in late 2018). This begs the question on the size of W. I presumed W would probably be three rows of 2-4-2 seating with leg rests, greater recline, etc. on the A350/777. With a further reduction in the size of D1, I think its very well possible W could end up being four rows, look at CI's 77W configuration.

I was wondering on this as well. Could we see the J mini cabins disappear in favor of W cabins, thereby scaling down J and introducing W with little or no reduction in Y?

akcae Aug 16, 16 9:55 am


The airline plans to introduce a second all-suite Delta One cabin in spring 2018 in its new Boeing 777 plane and will roll out additional all-suite cabins over the next several years until they are on the airline’s entire fleet of 25 Airbus A350 aircraft and 18 Boeing 777 aircraft. These planes should be in service by the end of 2020, Mr. Schaefer said. Meanwhile, the Delta One class in the skies today will continue stay in service on all existing planes.
From this paragraph, it's clear that:
- Suites will be introduced on the A350 a/c coming into service next fall.
- Suites will not be retrofit to existing a/c Delta One cabins.
- NYT doesn't know the difference between 777s and 787s, as that paragraph references "new Boeing 777 plane" which DL has none on order, and then "18 Boeing 777 aircraft" which matches DL's current 787 order.

Elsewhere in the article, they mention the suites coming to a/c flying longer routes of over 12hrs, so that pretty much excludes any a/c flying US-EU routes. There will definitely be no suites on 767s, and I'd venture to say A330s or existing 777s.

nichojo Aug 16, 16 10:05 am


Originally Posted by akcae (Post 27072534)
From this paragraph, it's clear that:
- Suites will be introduced on the A350 a/c coming into service next fall.
- Suites will not be retrofit to existing a/c Delta One cabins.
- NYT doesn't know the difference between 777s and 787s, as that paragraph references "new Boeing 777 plane" which DL has none on order, and then "18 Boeing 777 aircraft" which matches DL's current 787 order.

Elsewhere in the article, they mention the suites coming to a/c flying longer routes of over 12hrs, so that pretty much excludes any a/c flying US-EU routes. There will definitely be no suites on 767s, and I'd venture to say A330s or existing 777s.

Stop reading the NYT article. Read Delta's news instead:

"Following the A350 debut, the Delta One suite will progressively roll out on Delta’s Boeing 777 fleet. Delta will be the first U.S. airline to take delivery of the A350, which will primarily serve routes between the U.S. and Asia."

They absolutely have to refit the existing triple-sevens, those seats are in a state of disrepair (the seat on my SYD-LAX flight on Saturday had to be pushed back to go flat and had a broken USB port, light, and IFE).

3Cforme Aug 16, 16 10:07 am

Delta happens to have 18 777s: 10 777-200ERs and 8 777-200LRs. Given the typical stage length of those aircraft today it would be surprising if they are not retrofitted. Whether the NYT means 777 or 787 (deliveries postponed to 2020) is less than clear.

Added: Delta's press release is explicit. 777s get the suite refurb.

http://news.delta.com/delta-introduc...elta-one-suite

As for Longboater's comments on 339s, the first delivery date (2019) is far enough into the future that no decision on cabin fitment needs to be made, let alone announced.

As for 332s, would anyone care to do a frequency-adjusted average stage length based on a week's schedule?

LBJ Aug 16, 16 10:11 am


Originally Posted by koreanair720 (Post 27071890)
Odd factual error? Says there are only two classes on DL...what about comfort +?

Comfort+ is not considered a separate class of service as answered in the FAQ's --

IS DELTA NOW OFFERING FOUR CABINS OF SERVICE?

No. Delta offers a variety of flight experiences tailored to meet your needs. Our Delta One / First Class and Main Cabin are Delta's primary cabins of service. Delta Comfort+, Main Cabin, and Basic Economy are three experiences within our Main Cabin.


You are confusing separate fare class with actual class of service.

Melodsal Aug 16, 16 10:20 am

Pictures look good and much better than I had initially expected. I'm excited.

skyrider117 Aug 16, 16 10:24 am

Thank god.. new foam for the seats... I have a delicate hieney and on a JFK - NRT flight it gets a tad sore.....

nichojo Aug 16, 16 10:28 am


Originally Posted by skyrider117 (Post 27072702)
Thank god.. new foam for the seats... I have a delicate hieney and on a JFK - NRT flight it gets a tad sore.....

You don't have to worry about that flight much longer anyway.

KDCAflyer Aug 16, 16 10:31 am

This looks really nice. Great job DL! ^

skyrider117 Aug 16, 16 10:38 am


Originally Posted by nichojo (Post 27072721)
You don't have to worry about that flight much longer anyway.

Very true... I am not too thrilled about that..


Any guesses as to what TPAC rt the 350's will start on?
HND HKG SIN PEK NRT

javabytes Aug 16, 16 10:39 am

Must burn SkyMiles before the inevitable price increase after this debuts...

KDCAflyer Aug 16, 16 10:50 am


Originally Posted by skyrider117 (Post 27072787)
Very true... I am not too thrilled about that..


Any guesses as to what TPAC rt the 350's will start on?
HND HKG SIN PEK NRT

The various 747 routes ex-DTW would be first, I'd imagine. I could also see SEA-HKG, and maybe DL will consider starting SEA-SIN.

nichojo Aug 16, 16 10:51 am


Originally Posted by WWads (Post 27072857)
The various 747 routes ex-DTW would be first, I'd imagine. I could also see SEA-HKG, and maybe DL will consider starting SEA-SIN.

This.

Delta wants point-to-point US-APAC instead of via NRT.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 5:10 pm.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.