All suite business class in 2017

Old Aug 16, 16, 8:16 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by rylan View Post
Yeah if its coming as early as next year with the 350s and with the refurbs to the 777s, then you'd think they would make a big announcement out of it.
I think they needed to make an announcement now and get two bites of the cherry with a further big announcement - after last week they needed some good news.
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Old Aug 16, 16, 8:16 am
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More details from Delta:

http://news.delta.com/delta-introduc...elta-one-suite

  • A full-height door at every suite
  • Sliding privacy dividers between center suites
  • In-suite, customizable ambient lighting
  • Dedicated stowage compartments for shoes, headphones and laptops
  • Contemporary design featuring premium trim and finishes
  • Memory foam-enhanced comfort cushion
  • An 18-inch, high resolution in-flight entertainment monitor, the largest among U.S. carriers
  • A universal power outlet and high-powered USB port at every seat
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Old Aug 16, 16, 8:18 am
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Based on the fleet plans to replace 747s with 350-900, and based on the fact that the article quotes that only flights over 12 hours will have the suite product, I wouldn't expect any 330 or 767 fleets to get this product.
Not only do these fleets fly shorter routes, but the width of the fuselage of the 777 and 359 are both 2-3 meters wider than the 767 and 330 fleets.
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Old Aug 16, 16, 8:22 am
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I wonder if they're using the Thompson Vantage XL seats modified with a door? Or does this mean its an entirely different seat/suite all together than we've been thinking?

I see they also mentioned 32 J seats. Would've thought they'd have more on the 350. I wonder what the cabin config is going to end up, since there is speculation that this will also have the first 'real' Premium Econ seats.
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Old Aug 16, 16, 8:25 am
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Originally Posted by inthecloud View Post
Based on the fleet plans to replace 747s with 350-900, and based on the fact that the article quotes that only flights over 12 hours will have the suite product, I wouldn't expect any 330 or 767 fleets to get this product.
Not only do these fleets fly shorter routes, but the width of the fuselage of the 777 and 359 are both 2-3 meters wider than the 767 and 330 fleets.
I guess what I'm wondering is if that's a long-term plan, or just a current justification for the difference. And we all know A332s fly flights over 12 hours often. Curiously, the Delta press release is silent on all of this — including the 12-hour bit.
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Old Aug 16, 16, 8:36 am
  #21  
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Not only do these fleets fly shorter routes, but the width of the fuselage of the 777 and 359 are both 2-3 meters wider than the 767 and 330 fleets.

Two-three meters? That's a little exaggerated. Even focusing on fuselage width instead of cabin width, the difference between the narrowest and widest of your four types isn't that great. Fuselage width of a 777 is 6.20 meters. Fuselage width of a 767 is 4.72 meters.

For completeness:

A350, 5.96m

A330, 5.64m

Typical flight distance certainly is a factor for DL (and customers' willingness to pay). Cabin width may be a factor in floor space utilization.
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Old Aug 16, 16, 8:40 am
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I must admit, my initial response to the pic in the NYTimes article was more inline with the opinion that stated, "oh weird, looks like they are just putting a door on a somewhat standard business class seat. That could be oddly claustaphobic and uncomfortable". but the followup pics posted from the delta site look great. Looks like a ton of arm/laptop/drink/misc desk space and even the foot well seems somewhat more spacious for an enclosed seat. Looking good!
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Old Aug 16, 16, 8:40 am
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I hate to say it but United's new Polaris offerings look nicer than this.
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Old Aug 16, 16, 8:45 am
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme View Post
[I]

Two-three meters? That's a little exaggerated. Even focusing on fuselage width instead of cabin width, the difference between the narrowest and widest of your four types isn't that great. Fuselage width of a 777 is 6.20 meters. Fuselage width of a 767 is 4.72 meters.

For completeness:

A350, 5.96m

A330, 5.64m

Typical flight distance certainly is a factor for DL (and customers' willingness to pay). Cabin width may be a factor in floor space utilization.
I see we're splitting hairs on this lovely tuesday morning. Sorry for glancing at numbers and making generalizations, but the premise stands. The 767 lie flats were a struggle to implement in the first place, and feel like a coffin. Good luck adding doors to that.
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Old Aug 16, 16, 9:21 am
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Edit: already posted.
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Old Aug 16, 16, 9:23 am
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Originally Posted by inthecloud View Post
I see we're splitting hairs on this lovely tuesday morning. Sorry for glancing at numbers and making generalizations, but the premise stands. The 767 lie flats were a struggle to implement in the first place, and feel like a coffin. Good luck adding doors to that.

They won't retrofit the 767s.
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Old Aug 16, 16, 9:40 am
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I wrote elsewhere on FT, forget which thread/forum, that the A350-900 product will be able to fit the 777 fleet without issue. Seat manufacturers design premium cabins with some commonality and the difference between the A350 and 777 fuselage's is only a few inches. Ditto for the 787/A330.

My main question here is what happens to the current A330 fleet and the future 25 A330NEOs. As seen in the photos, the new D1 product is a heavily modified version of the Thompson Vantage XL seat, a significantly wider seat than its predecessor as seen on DL's 767s. Thompson Aero designed the Vantage XL seat to be modified to fit on cabins as wide as the 777s and as narrow as the A330. According to Thompson Aero's website, the A330/787 Thompson Vantage XL seat is between 1-2 inches narrower than the A350/777 seat. So it is possible DL may choose to eventually install their heavily modified suites on the A330 fleet. I'd find it hard to believe they would not install it on the future A330NEO fleet.

In regards to the 764 fleet, which will probably stay in the fleet for at least ten more years, its possible they could install the new suite product, but the tradeoff would have to involve removing one seat from each row, in effect going from 1-2-1 to 1-1-1. With DL scaling down the size of D1 cabins in an effort to ensure they are comprised of mostly paid passengers and a few using upgrade instruments, it would not surprise me if they take this step of going from 40 D1 seats on the 764 down to 30, while at the same time installing a small cabin of W with a 2-2-2 configuration.

Overall, I am a little surprised how small D1 cabins are now. (Incidentally, AA will have the same number of J seats on their A350s when they debut in late 2018). This begs the question on the size of W. I presumed W would probably be three rows of 2-4-2 seating with leg rests, greater recline, etc. on the A350/777. With a further reduction in the size of D1, I think its very well possible W could end up being four rows, look at CI's 77W configuration.
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Old Aug 16, 16, 9:49 am
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Originally Posted by Longboater View Post
I wrote elsewhere on FT, forget which thread/forum, that the A350-900 product will be able to fit the 777 fleet without issue. Seat manufacturers design premium cabins with some commonality and the difference between the A350 and 777 fuselage's is only a few inches. Ditto for the 787/A330.

My main question here is what happens to the current A330 fleet and the future 25 A330NEOs. As seen in the photos, the new D1 product is a heavily modified version of the Thompson Vantage XL seat, a significantly wider seat than its predecessor as seen on DL's 767s. Thompson Aero designed the Vantage XL seat to be modified to fit on cabins as wide as the 777s and as narrow as the A330. According to Thompson Aero's website, the A330/787 Thompson Vantage XL seat is between 1-2 inches narrower than the A350/777 seat. So it is possible DL may choose to eventually install their heavily modified suites on the A330 fleet. I'd find it hard to believe they would not install it on the future A330NEO fleet.

In regards to the 764 fleet, which will probably stay in the fleet for at least ten more years, its possible they could install the new suite product, but the tradeoff would have to involve removing one seat from each row, in effect going from 1-2-1 to 1-1-1. With DL scaling down the size of D1 cabins in an effort to ensure they are comprised of mostly paid passengers and a few using upgrade instruments, it would not surprise me if they take this step of going from 40 D1 seats on the 764 down to 30, while at the same time installing a small cabin of W with a 2-2-2 configuration.

Overall, I am a little surprised how small D1 cabins are now. (Incidentally, AA will have the same number of J seats on their A350s when they debut in late 2018). This begs the question on the size of W. I presumed W would probably be three rows of 2-4-2 seating with leg rests, greater recline, etc. on the A350/777. With a further reduction in the size of D1, I think its very well possible W could end up being four rows, look at CI's 77W configuration.
I was wondering on this as well. Could we see the J mini cabins disappear in favor of W cabins, thereby scaling down J and introducing W with little or no reduction in Y?
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Old Aug 16, 16, 9:55 am
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The airline plans to introduce a second all-suite Delta One cabin in spring 2018 in its new Boeing 777 plane and will roll out additional all-suite cabins over the next several years until they are on the airline’s entire fleet of 25 Airbus A350 aircraft and 18 Boeing 777 aircraft. These planes should be in service by the end of 2020, Mr. Schaefer said. Meanwhile, the Delta One class in the skies today will continue stay in service on all existing planes.
From this paragraph, it's clear that:
- Suites will be introduced on the A350 a/c coming into service next fall.
- Suites will not be retrofit to existing a/c Delta One cabins.
- NYT doesn't know the difference between 777s and 787s, as that paragraph references "new Boeing 777 plane" which DL has none on order, and then "18 Boeing 777 aircraft" which matches DL's current 787 order.

Elsewhere in the article, they mention the suites coming to a/c flying longer routes of over 12hrs, so that pretty much excludes any a/c flying US-EU routes. There will definitely be no suites on 767s, and I'd venture to say A330s or existing 777s.
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Old Aug 16, 16, 10:05 am
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Originally Posted by akcae View Post
From this paragraph, it's clear that:
- Suites will be introduced on the A350 a/c coming into service next fall.
- Suites will not be retrofit to existing a/c Delta One cabins.
- NYT doesn't know the difference between 777s and 787s, as that paragraph references "new Boeing 777 plane" which DL has none on order, and then "18 Boeing 777 aircraft" which matches DL's current 787 order.

Elsewhere in the article, they mention the suites coming to a/c flying longer routes of over 12hrs, so that pretty much excludes any a/c flying US-EU routes. There will definitely be no suites on 767s, and I'd venture to say A330s or existing 777s.
Stop reading the NYT article. Read Delta's news instead:

"Following the A350 debut, the Delta One suite will progressively roll out on Delta’s Boeing 777 fleet. Delta will be the first U.S. airline to take delivery of the A350, which will primarily serve routes between the U.S. and Asia."

They absolutely have to refit the existing triple-sevens, those seats are in a state of disrepair (the seat on my SYD-LAX flight on Saturday had to be pushed back to go flat and had a broken USB port, light, and IFE).
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