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-   -   All suite business class in 2017 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1785016-all-suite-business-class-2017-a.html)

jimrpa Aug 23, 16 7:57 pm


Originally Posted by Xeno (Post 27110121)
BTW, that 744 was one of if not the first 747 made and is now in a museum as the captain let me sit in his seat and said that was the final run for that particular 747.

The first 747 ever made would have been a 100, not a 400 and Pan Am was the launch carrier, not Delta. Also, the very small (by today's standards) upper deck was configured as a lounge and it certainly did not have lie-flats in business class :D

rylan Aug 23, 16 8:04 pm

I think he meant the first -400. That ship, N661US, was actually the first production of the 747-400 and used for test flights before going to NWA back in 1989.

jrl767 Aug 23, 16 8:32 pm


Originally Posted by Xeno (Post 27110121)
... The flight was short (CDG-DTW) and I only slept 1 hour to take advantage of all the benefits.

there are a handful of FTers booked on DL281 (DTW-SEA) on 15 Sep, so we will see your "short" (~9 hrs, ~3900 miles) and raise you (well, lower you :D) by about 50% (~4.8 hrs, ~1920 miles)


Originally Posted by Xeno (Post 27110121)
BTW, that 744 was one of if not the first 747 made and is now in a museum as the captain let me sit in his seat and said that was the final run for that particular 747.


Originally Posted by jimrpa (Post 27110244)
The first 747 ever made would have been a 100, not a 400 and Pan Am was the launch carrier, not Delta. Also, the very small (by today's standards) upper deck was configured as a lounge and it certainly did not have lie-flats in business class :D


Originally Posted by rylan (Post 27110274)
I think he meant the first -400. That ship, N661US, was actually the first production of the 747-400 and used for test flights before going to NWA back in 1989.

correct; N661US (line #696; Boeing tabulation #RT401) is the #1 744; it will reside in the Delta Museum in ATL after being restored to display-worthy condition

the very first 747 (RA001, N7470) is at the Museum of Flight at Boeing Field in Seattle ... having been on about two dozen test flights, in various seat locations both downstairs and upstairs (as well as standing on the flight deck to monitor some uninstrumented test conditions), I can assure everyone here that it did not have anything resembling a lounge or any kind of biz class -- much less lie-flat -- accommodations :D

PA was indeed the launch customer, but their first delivery was apparently the #10 jet off the line (I'll research this a bit more)

jdrtravel Aug 23, 16 9:58 pm


Originally Posted by jimrpa (Post 27110244)
The first 747 ever made would have been a 100, not a 400 and Pan Am was the launch carrier, not Delta. Also, the very small (by today's standards) upper deck was configured as a lounge and it certainly did not have lie-flats in business class :D

As others pointed out, but to be concise: this was the first in the 400 series and NWA was the launch customer, that's why the particular ship is significant.

jimrpa Aug 23, 16 10:28 pm


Originally Posted by jrl767 (Post 27110355)
there are a handful of FTers booked on DL281 (DTW-SEA) on 15 Sep, so we will see your "short" (~9 hrs, ~3900 miles) and raise you (well, lower you :D) by about 50% (~4.8 hrs, ~1920 miles)

Obviously, I was referring to the first aircraft that went into commercial service, not the actual various test articles or whatever they were referred to as :D


correct; N661US (line #696; Boeing tabulation #RT401) is the #1 744; it will reside in the Delta Museum in ATL after being restored to display-worthy condition

the very first 747 (RA001, N7470) is at the Museum of Flight at Boeing Field in Seattle ... having been on about two dozen test flights, in various seat locations both downstairs and upstairs (as well as standing on the flight deck to monitor some uninstrumented test conditions), I can assure everyone here that it did not have anything resembling a lounge or any kind of biz class -- much less lie-flat -- accommodations :D

PA was indeed the launch customer, but their first delivery was apparently the #10 jet off the line (I'll research this a bit more)


ijgordon Aug 23, 16 10:31 pm


Originally Posted by lamont2718 (Post 27109800)
US-Australia has historically been an uncompetitive market for hard product. QF primarily uses 2-2-2 layouts in J and even 2-3-2 on its 747s. VA has also used 2-3-2 until recently. While the soft product on those carriers is better than on DL, their hard product is not exactly superior to DL's herringbone configuration with direct aisle access.

And in an odd turn of events, AA now offers the best hard product (though I suppose tied with VA's new offering?), and it's actually the surest long-haul upgrade in their whole system...go figure.

jdrtravel Aug 23, 16 10:34 pm


Originally Posted by ijgordon (Post 27110676)
And in an odd turn of events, AA now offers the best hard product (though I suppose tied with VA's new offering?), and it's actually the surest long-haul upgrade in their whole system...go figure.

The race to be better is good. UA's new product looks solid, and is forcing DL to invest so they are not #3.

Longboater Aug 23, 16 10:37 pm


Originally Posted by jdrtravel (Post 27110680)
The race to be better is good. UA's new product looks solid, and is forcing DL to invest so they are not #3.

DL was planning their new product at the same time as UA was planning Polaris.

jdrtravel Aug 23, 16 10:44 pm


Originally Posted by Longboater (Post 27110684)
DL was planning their new product at the same time as UA was planning Polaris.

My point still stands.

jrl767 Aug 24, 16 6:15 am


Originally Posted by jrl767 (Post 27110355)
PA was indeed the launch customer, but their first delivery was apparently the #10 jet off the line (I'll research this a bit more)

Line Number 6 (N733PA) was the first 747 to deliver (12 Dec 1969)

LN 11 (N736PA) operated the inaugural JFK-LHR flight (21 Jan 1970); LN 10 (N735PA) had been assigned, but had a number of mechanical issues that resulted in a tail swap after about a 7-hour delay

just imagine all the posts about compensation had FT been around then :rolleyes:

MikeyZBT Aug 24, 16 9:11 am


Originally Posted by vincentharris (Post 27071745)
Guess DL is starting to feel pressure from foreign airlines, plus Qatar in ATL now, and an airport authority/mayor who is not allowing DL to have the majority in town. (Both were quoted saying they are courting other airlines to ATL, because a world class airport needs options blah blah blah etc)

As someone stuck in Atlanta, I love the idea of competition. Having only Delta here really screws us from a cost-perspective.

HornsKeith Aug 24, 16 9:35 am

So perhaps a different kind of question: what's driving the quest for better and better business class seating? I'm not talking about the Air France La Premiere type, but just the regular business class for international flights. I can only imagine such improvements will result in higher business class pricing (no matter what DL says). Are companies really willing to pay even more than today?

I mostly ask because a lot of DL international flights are already $5k to $8k for a round trip- a tough corporate pill to swallow when Y is $1800. Or am I missing something?

(I wish there were instead cheaper, no frills lie flat options for sleeping flights that would simply make the option more palatable to employers.... but I could be in the minority)

Keith

jdrtravel Aug 24, 16 9:59 am


Originally Posted by HornsKeith (Post 27112500)
So perhaps a different kind of question: what's driving the quest for better and better business class seating? I'm not talking about the Air France La Premiere type, but just the regular business class for international flights. I can only imagine such improvements will result in higher business class pricing (no matter what DL says). Are companies really willing to pay even more than today?

I mostly ask because a lot of DL international flights are already $5k to $8k for a round trip- a tough corporate pill to swallow when Y is $1800. Or am I missing something?

(I wish there were instead cheaper, no frills lie flat options for sleeping flights that would simply make the option more palatable to employers.... but I could be in the minority)

Keith

I don't think the hope is that it will necessarily result in higher prices, but rather, more people choosing to fly Delta who pay the already very high prices. I think that all of the airlines are doing what they can to attract the relatively fixed amount of customers who pay full or close to full J fares. The price is always a result of a variety of market factors, and I don't think the seat is the primary factor in price. But it may be a major factor in a customers choice of where to spend that $5-$10 K.

morrisunc Aug 24, 16 10:44 am


Originally Posted by jdrtravel (Post 27112644)
I don't think the hope is that it will necessarily result in higher prices, but rather, more people choosing to fly Delta who pay the already very high prices. I think that all of the airlines are doing what they can to attract the relatively fixed amount of customers who pay full or close to full J fares. The price is always a result of a variety of market factors, and I don't think the seat is the primary factor in price. But it may be a major factor in a customers choice of where to spend that $5-$10 K.

And the big corporate contracts are not paying anywhere near that high of fare. My company's JFK-LHR biz rate is around $3,300 round trip on AA/BA...heard we spent almost $100mm on the route last year though. Our JFK-ICN is $4,000 on Korean Air.

TrojanTraveler Aug 24, 16 2:19 pm

Does anyone know what the range is on the 350s that DL will be receiving? Can they fly routes as long as, say, JFK-HKG?


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