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Regulation (EC) 261/2004 Delayed flight - Delta Air Lines Definitive Thread

Regulation (EC) 261/2004 Delayed flight - Delta Air Lines Definitive Thread

Old Aug 16, 2016, 7:17 pm
  #31  
 
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My father was on DL0212 on Aug 1: NCE-JFK. It was delayed a little over 4 hours and caused him to miss his connection on to ATL, which he flew the next day. He was given a hotel voucher and taxi fare by DL for his overnight.

There had been some bad weather at JFK, I think, the day before on Jul 31, and DL canceled both NCE-JFK 212 and JFK-NCE 412 (so I presume that plane was still in NCE). Weirdly a friend of mine was supposed to have been on the cancelled 412. We were told at NCE on Aug 1 that the plane was waiting on the crew to rest and departure delayed 4 hours.

Wondering if he has a legitimate EU261/2004 claim. He does in terms of hours delayed on an EU departing flight and missed domestic US connection. But I'm not sure about the "cause" and if it is "extraordinary" and beyond DL control. While there may have been bad weather in JFK the day before, there didn't seem to be that problem on Aug 1 (even anticipating the arrival at JFK).

I've requested a delay verification via the DL website, but at the rate they are going (with the 8/8 debacle) I'm not optimistic I'll get it any time soon. And anyway, I imagine they will deny the claim under the guise of weather. I really don't know how to identify actual cause. Since they gave out hotel vouchers, I'm thinking it wasn't weather since they wouldn't have to do that. He has no status FYI. Thoughts?

Last edited by Stgermainparis; Aug 16, 2016 at 7:32 pm
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Old Aug 16, 2016, 7:47 pm
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Stgermainparis
. Since they gave out hotel vouchers, I'm thinking it wasn't weather since they wouldn't have to do that. He has no status FYI. Thoughts?
The fact that they gave out hotel vouchers does NOT mean that a 261 claim will succeed as that depends on the actual cause of the delay.

The hotel voucher comes under the 'duty of care' provisions of the regulation and apply even if the cause of the delay is not the responsibiity of the airline.
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Old Aug 16, 2016, 7:52 pm
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by UKtravelbear
The fact that they gave out hotel vouchers does NOT mean that a 261 claim will succeed as that depends on the actual cause of the delay.

The hotel voucher comes under the 'duty of care' provisions of the regulation and apply even if the cause of the delay is not the responsibiity of the airline.
Ah, okay. Still I don't know what the cause of the delay was. The outbound (same flight) the day before was canceled, leading to the subsequent inbound canceled (presumably). And by the time he left there was no bad weather in NCE or JFK. Crew rest was the reason given at airport.
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Old Aug 16, 2016, 8:42 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Stgermainparis
Ah, okay. Still I don't know what the cause of the delay was. The outbound (same flight) the day before was canceled, leading to the subsequent inbound canceled (presumably). And by the time he left there was no bad weather in NCE or JFK. Crew rest was the reason given at airport.
Really what matters is why the aircraft arrived late that was transporting passengers to JFK. If it got in late due to ATC/Weather and they had to delay for the crew to be legal then no compensation, only duty of care (hotel, food, transportation, and a phone call/fax/email).
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Old Aug 19, 2016, 7:19 pm
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Got my flight cancellation delay verification. Says "Late Arrival Equipment". So what do you guys think?

Last edited by Stgermainparis; Aug 19, 2016 at 7:42 pm
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Old Sep 13, 2016, 3:45 am
  #36  
 
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To avoid compensation EU Regulation 261 2004 requires that "all reasonable measures had been taken by the air carrier concerned to avoid the delays or cancellations..." A reasonable measure could have been to arrange for backup equipment or booking an alternative flight, even on a different airline. Delta obviously didn't do either. A similar situation occurred for me several years ago. Delta's flight from New York had a technical problem and was cancelled. They tried to use this as a valid reason for cancelling their returning flight from Milan to NYC, but eventually paid us €1200 when I convinced them that a) technical problems are not considered extraordinary events, and b) the technical problem they referred to didn't even exist on the Milan-JFK flight.
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Old Sep 13, 2016, 6:31 am
  #37  
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Note that it is up to the airline to prove a reason for a delay.

e.g. With the OP's first issue, it is not sufficient for the airline to simply state "Air Traffic Control". They must provide unequivocal evidence to support that statement in order to claim "Exceptional Circumstances".

Moreover, with the OP's additional issue, it is not in itself sufficient for the delay of an inbound to be caused by "Exceptional Circumstance" for a claim to be denied.

There is a lot more in this thread from the BA forum:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...61-2004-a.html

In relation to DL and the regulation, it basically applies to any journey departing an EU port.
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Old Sep 15, 2016, 5:16 pm
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I'm filling out the AF claim form for a DL flight and it asks for my bank routing and account number. I'm just not going to do that. What do you all do?
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Old Sep 15, 2016, 5:20 pm
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Stgermainparis
I'm filling out the AF claim form for a DL flight and it asks for my bank routing and account number. I'm just not going to do that. What do you all do?
You can leave it blank. Most people today want direct deposit and some countries no longer process checks.

PS Since it's a DL flight the claim should be with DL, not AF.
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Old Sep 15, 2016, 9:19 pm
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Originally Posted by Stgermainparis
I'm filling out the AF claim form for a DL flight and it asks for my bank routing and account number. I'm just not going to do that. What do you all do?
If it's a European form then that may be the only payment option. It's the most common, and sometimes the only, way of making such payments. People seem to be much less paranoid about it there (I do it myself). However, as flyerCO points out, your claim is with DL.
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Old Sep 15, 2016, 10:06 pm
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Originally Posted by flyerCO
You can leave it blank. Most people today want direct deposit and some countries no longer process checks.

PS Since it's a DL flight the claim should be with DL, not AF.
Originally Posted by MADPhil
If it's a European form then that may be the only payment option. It's the most common, and sometimes the only, way of making such payments. People seem to be much less paranoid about it there (I do it myself). However, as flyerCO points out, your claim is with DL.
I agree that claim should be with DL, but various sources says AF handles all EU 261 cases for DL. I've filed with both now. We shall see.
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Old Sep 15, 2016, 10:28 pm
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Stgermainparis
I agree that claim should be with DL, but various sources says AF handles all EU 261 cases for DL. I've filed with both now. We shall see.
If you live in Europe, AF will process the claim on Delta's behalf. However, you still need to submit the DL form as AF is only handling it.

If you live in the US then DL will process the claim itself. Likewise if you live in the US, DL will process the claim on behalf of AF/KLM/AZ. However, you'd need to use the form of the carrier you flew, since the claim is still with the operating carrier.
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Old Oct 19, 2016, 11:37 am
  #43  
 
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I just wanted to update you all on my claim for EU261 for flight delay Aug 1 on NCE-JFK. My check arrived a few days ago for equivalent 600 euros. I basically didn't do anything other than file a "complaint" via DL website (and a follow up phone call to inquire about it but got no update at that time). The approved the claim in a letter a few weeks ago and then sent payment. The system, in my case, worked.
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Old Oct 20, 2016, 5:15 am
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Not sure if this is the right place for this or not but we were flying FRA to Key West on AF with a DL codeshare flight in ATL to Key West. The DL codeshare flight was unquestionably delayed due to a mechanical issue. We finally arrived in Key West 3 hours and 3 minutes late. Should I file a claim and with whom?
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Old Oct 20, 2016, 9:19 am
  #45  
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Originally Posted by cayohueso
Not sure if this is the right place for this or not but we were flying FRA to Key West on AF with a DL codeshare flight in ATL to Key West. The DL codeshare flight was unquestionably delayed due to a mechanical issue. We finally arrived in Key West 3 hours and 3 minutes late. Should I file a claim and with whom?
FRA-ATL or your onward travel?
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