flyerCO

Call back. HUACA is really all can do, or try Twitter. Does it show Z when searching for the whole route or only as a stand alone. There may be Z on AAA-BBB but not on AAA-BBB when flying AAA-BBB-CCC

bgriff

And for a 3-segment-per-direction route it's possible that your particular AAA-BBB-CCC-DDD doesn't even show up on Expertflyer, in which case you have to depend on what Delta tells you, and annoyingly many agents get it wrong. That said if they told you that Z was available for purchase, not for upgrade, it sounds like Z probably is available, and they're just wrong that there's a distinction between purchaseable Z and upgradeable Z.

In my experience calling during weekday business hours is usually best, I've gotten some really bad advice from weekend agents. Though with the holiday this week the most senior and thus (usually) most competent agents may be out all week.

thomas22

flights are SAT-MSP-AMS-CPT then return JNB-AMS-DTW-SAT. Already upgraded EXCEPT AMS-CPT and JNB-AMS, which are the only KLM flights. I understand (i think) married segments but it makes no sense if i already have the upgrades on some segments that i would need to search them again (which you can't because they are mixed carrier)?

I guess i will try HUCA #3 for today and hope the Z stays there.

bgriff

You need to search for SAT-CPT and JNB-SAT on EF and see whether it shows Z availability for the KL legs. What it shows for AMS-CPT and JNB-AMS is irrelevant. It looks like EF does show some similar 2-stop itineraries with Delta legs for that search, though I don't see any via MSP for the days that I tried. If EF doesn't show your particular itinerary, you're stuck relying on what Delta can tell you.

thomas22

so it gets weirder?

searching the whole route (in each direction separately) on EF I see Z0 Z4 Z9 on the way there and Z0 Z0 Z0 on the way back so it would appear based on married segment logic i should be able to upgrade the third segment on the way there. So i called Delta, and guess what NOTHING available either direction as stand alone segments or as married segments (He claims he checked both methods after I questioned it).

So the summary: EF says the one segment on the way there is available based on married segments and the one segment is available on the return as a stand alone segment. But Delta says nothing is available.

Did i waste $99 on EF?

bgriff

There is an outside chance that Delta is correct since EF is showing you the 3 segments based on KL flight numbers, when -- if you are successful in applying the GUC -- you'll have a trip with 2 flights on DL flight numbers and 1 flight on a KL flight number, which could in theory have different availability than what KL shows you.

But I suspect you're still getting unlucky with the agents. If the trip isn't right away, wait until next week when it's no longer the holiday and try calling back during prime business hours.

As for whether you wasted $99, you'll have to make that call for yourself ... if you hadn't spent $99 you might have believed the first agent and never called back at all $99 is an annual membership which is a longer time horizon than you need to do this query, so look into some of the other things EF offers you -- personally I particularly like the various alert options, especially seat alerts, though this isn't the right forum for a longer discussion about the features of EF.

flyerCO

Is it showing DL numbers for the DL flight and KL for the KL flight? Or is it showing all KL numbers?

EF is great tool. However you have to get the exact flight numbers.

Most likely though you have a clueless agent. I've had great success with GUC and KLM. In fact my GUC generally are only used on KLM flights. The biggest problem I've found is agents searching for Z on the DL flight number or searching for OY on the KLM.

uitailgater

I'm flying CPT-AMS-DTW-MDW next year. The first flight is operated by KLM, and the second two are operated by Delta. All are booked with the DL flight numbers. I already confirmed the upgrade on the DL segments AMS-DTW-MDW at booking, so I'm left trying to confirm CPT-AMS.

If I search CPT-CHI on ExpertFlyer, my exact itinerary shows up, with Z9 on CPT-AMS on the KLM flight number. The second and third flights show the KLM flight numbers in the results, but also show that they're operated by Delta (e.g. "KL (DL) 6059"). If I'm understanding this thread correctly, this should be enough to upgrade CPT-AMS, since it does have Z9 on that segment of the married itinerary CPT-CHI. But I've spoken with 3 Delta agents and all have insisted they need to find just CPT-AMS, which of course shows Z0. Are they correct, or do I need to keep calling?

flyerCO

Keep calling. It should always be based off of a search as a whole. Only other choice is to set an expertflyer alert for Z on CPT-AMS. However I bet once it alerts, you'll get an agent who insist on looking at routing as whole, (as should be) and Z will be gone then.

uitailgater

Thanks, that is exactly my fear that eventually the CPT-AMS flight will open up, but by then Z space would be gone for the route as a whole. I've tried a few more calls and a tweet today, still no luck so far. When I'm searching the whole route CPT-MDW does it need to show Z availability on all 3 segments? DTW-MDW is Z0 (and I'm already upgraded anyway) but I'd gladly skip the upgrade on this flight if I can confirm it CPT-AMS.

flyerCO

Sholud only need to show Z for the CPT-AMS as the others are already upgraded. I'm curious of that might be also causing a problem. Agent is looking for upgrade space on all the flights although they've already been upgraded. The final issue is if the agent is looking for OY on the KLM flight number instead of Z.

uitailgater

Ok that's what I thought.

I had a long discussion on Twitter and requested they specifically check the whole route, both as KL/DL/DL flight numbers, and as KL/KL/KL flight numbers. In the second case with all KLM flight numbers, they can see Z availability on the AMS-DTW flight operated by DL, but still nothing on CPT-AMS, even though that flight shows Z9 in EF.

And another wrinkle now they noted is that the CPT-AMS flight is already in my ticket with the KLM flight number, rather than the DL code-share I purchased. I guess this got changed when they upgraded the outbound flights. So now they say it's not upgrade-eligible since it's a KLM-coded flight not booked in Y/B/M, and they seem unable to move it back to the DL flight number. Hopefully if/when Z space appears that they can see, they can find someone to override the rule, since I purchased it initially as the DL code-share.

uitailgater

Update: I've been watching EF for CPT-AMS availability on its own, as well as overall CPT-MDW. Today, searching just CPT-AMS, 1 seat showed available. I sent a DM to the Twitter team. They could see the 1 seat available that was showing in EF for the CPT-AMS route. They split our reservation and were able to upgrade my wife successfully. I've set an alert on EF and will keep watching for one more seat to open up.

So in this case at least, with part of the route operated by KLM and part by Delta, I needed to find availability searching just on the KLM-operated portion of the route by itself. On the outbound (ORD-AMS-CPT), I had to find availability on the route as a whole since it was all operated by KLM. This does match the way the reservation shows on klm.com. There it shows 3 segments: ORD-CPT (2 flights operated by KLM), CPT-AMS (1 flight operated by KLM), AMS-MDW (2 flights operated by Delta), even though I bought it as a round-trip and just have a 2 hour connection on the return.

I had called the Diamond line a few days ago to ask about changing the KLM-coded flight back to the DL codeshare, since they had changed it when they upgraded the outbound. They couldn't change it back, but they were able to confirm with the KLM desk, and put a note in my record, that the upgrade would be approved if available since I had originally purchased the codeshare. This helped today, because the first response on Twitter was that the flight wasn't eligible for an upgrade since it was a KLM flight number not in Y/B/M. After they read the notes in the record, there were no issues with confirming the upgrade.

bgriff

Interesting data point.

I will say, I booked a NY-ORD-AMS-South Africa ticket with the longhaul flights on KL, and was able to upgrade after finding EF showing upgrade space on ORD-South Africa only (since EF doesn't show NY-Chicago-Amsterdam-South Africa as a routing). So perhaps on mixed DL/KL itineraries you do need to find KL space on the isolated KL flights?

That said I have seen counterexamples on routings that do show up on EF where adding domestic DL legs to an international KL trip appears to make the KL space disappear -- but then again, in those cases EF was showing me the domestic DL legs with KL flight numbers on them, so that is not necessarily the same as what happens when you mix DL and KL flight numbers, as would happen if GUCs were applied to an itinerary with some DL-operated legs and some KL-operated legs.

CGNC

I book KL upgrades to Africa around once a quarter. Once in about every five agents do I get one that knows how a GUC is applied, what the terms are and what needs to be done for it to take with KL. In fact for this most recent trip, it wasn't until the morning of departure on the outbound I realized the agent had incorrectly booked and gave me Z-class space on the return, which when reissued, ended up being the continuation of my outbound flight back to AMS. Luckily they were able to fix, but moral of the story is HUCA, HUCA, HUCA. Then check their work like a fox.