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Absolutely no changes to tickets with GUCs after purchase?

Absolutely no changes to tickets with GUCs after purchase?

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Old Jun 9, 16, 12:47 pm
  #1  
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Absolutely no changes to tickets with GUCs after purchase?

Yesterday, I used two GUCs for OKC-PEK. I had to route through SLC and SEA to get OP for SEA-PEK but wanted to go through DTW for the longer D1 flight on the 333 (rather than the 763 out of SEA).

Still no OP inventory today for DTW-PEK, but the DM agent also said that I could not make any changes whatever to this ticket after the '24 hours' or the GUCs would be lost. She was very specific about no changes once a Singapore agent had taken over or perhaps reissued my ticket.

I thought I could change at least to the alternative flights on the same days but even other dates and perhaps even destinations like PVG or HKG - subject to fare rules, change fees, and OP inventory - so am I wrongly interpreting the T&Cs?

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...tificates.html

14. Changes: Voluntary changes in reservations on ticketed itineraries are permitted only pursuant to the rules of the fare purchased, but upgrade is not guaranteed and will depend on availability and these terms and conditions. Where permitted, changes may require payment of a change fee and/or any difference in the applicable fare. Any refund or cancellation will result in the loss of the upgrade certificate. All reissues must be completed by Delta reservations. If you are re-accommodated on another carrier you will be seated in Main Cabin.

(I apologize for the duplicate post as I initially put this in the dedicated thread to GUCs but since I was hoping for clarification before the end of my 24 hours, I thought a dedicated thread was required.)
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Old Jun 9, 16, 12:51 pm
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I've never lost a GUC in the manner described.
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Old Jun 9, 16, 12:53 pm
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Thank you.

Did you change to alternative flights, dates, and/or cities?
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Old Jun 9, 16, 12:57 pm
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I changed flights, dates, cities. Originally had certs applied to IND-MSP-CDG. They were waitlisted and then cleared. That trip was canceled so I changed to IND-VCE months later. The agent said she could not waitlist me for anything, since the cert had been used, but it was not a problem as long as I could find flights with immediate upgrade availability, which I did.

It sounds like your problem must be the proximity to your flight and maybe the fact that another carrier has taken over at the 24 hour window?
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Old Jun 9, 16, 1:01 pm
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Sorry for the confusion as the '24 hour' window is the 'purchase' window. The actual flights are not until October but I thought about cancelling this ticket today if my options were so severely limited.
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Old Jun 9, 16, 1:16 pm
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Oh. Well perhaps officially you are at their mercy after the 24 hour refund window and the ticket has been reissued. In practice more people than just me have reported being able to change--but I don't know of anyone who actually got the cert back for waitlisting purposes. You would have to find flights with immediate upgrade availability, which can be hard.
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Old Jun 9, 16, 1:28 pm
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AFAIK once the ticket has been reissued using the GUC, the GUC is attached to the PNR and cannot be returned to your account for future use. You can however make changes to your itinerary, subject to fare rules of course, and keep the GUC attached to it, with upgrades confirmed based on the availability of upgrade inventory on the new flights. This normally means that the ticket can be exchanged for the new flights and then reissued with the GUC upgrades. It seems to also mean that you cannot totally cancel the old itinerary/ticket that's been reissued with the GUC and start again with a totally new itinerary/ticket using the same GUC.

I've done this personally with old SWUs but not GUCs. In my case, my destination was different, but the new ticket originated in MSP like the old one.
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Old Jun 9, 16, 1:29 pm
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Today's DM agent said the ticket would not be reissued until taken over by agents in Singapore. She said this can happen quickly at the end of the 24 hour protected refund period but at times it can take longer. She pushed this point to encourage me to avoid any risk as the reissue could happen 'at any moment'.

I am a long term SWU users (with EF) so I know something about finding OP inventory though the clock would be ticking if things go south on my trip to Beijing.
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Old Jun 9, 16, 1:31 pm
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OP, you are on an international itinerary. So changes to routing would be subject to fare rules, including change fees and fare differences.

This is not like award fares, where you can call and change when availability opens up. Once you purchase the ticket, you can only change routing in the case there is a delay, cancellation, schedule change etc. without charge.

Also, in my experience, once a GUC has been redeemed and you have been reticketed in business, that's it - the GUC T&C states that you cannot have it back under any circumstances (unless, as huskerchad has commented, you can exchange with another flight with immediately availability in OP class, due to delays, cancellations, schedule changes, etc.). Of course, YMMV depending on whom you talk to and the exact circumstances; I am just quoting the official rules and opining on your case thus far (I don't imagine them having much sympathy because you prefer different equipment, given they haven't changed it since you've booked, and the GUC T&Cs are publicly available).

DM agents have also always told me to wait until after the risk-free cancel period to redeem a RUC or GUC to make sure you didn't want to cancel the flights, as the certificates would be surrendered. To me, and per the GUC T&Cs I've quoted below, it seems like you are stuck with your current itinerary, unless you wish to cancel and also lose the GUCs you already redeemed.

"3. Refunds & Cash Value: This certificate is non-refundable and has no cash value. Certificate will be deemed fully used upon surrender and will not be honored retroactively or in connection with the exchange of any wholly or partially unused ticket. Ticket refunds are permitted only pursuant to the rules of the fare purchased. Any full or partial refund of the underlying Main Cabin fare ticket after upgrade will render this certificate void.


14. Changes: Voluntary changes in reservations on ticketed itineraries are permitted only pursuant to the rules of the fare purchased, but upgrade is not guaranteed and will depend on availability and these terms and conditions. Where permitted, changes may require payment of a change fee and/or any difference in the applicable fare. Any refund or cancellation will result in the loss of the upgrade certificate. All reissues must be completed by Delta reservations. If you are re-accommodated on another carrier you will be seated in Main Cabin."

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...tificates.html
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Old Jun 9, 16, 1:33 pm
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Originally Posted by Xeno View Post
Today's DM agent said the ticket would not be reissued until taken over by agents in Singapore. She said this can happen quickly at the end of the 24 hour protected refund period but at times it can take longer. She pushed this point to encourage me to avoid any risk as the reissue could happen 'at any moment'.

I am a long term SWU users (with EF) so I know something about finding OP inventory though the clock would be ticking if things go south on my trip to Beijing.
If you are at all unsure about taking the current flights in J and being happy with them, I would remove the GUC request immediately. I did not realize in my previous post that you had not been reticketed yet.

Last edited by btonkid12345; Jun 9, 16 at 1:52 pm Reason: Autocorrect changed flights to flips
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Old Jun 9, 16, 1:35 pm
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Originally Posted by btonkid12345 View Post
OP, you are on an international itinerary. So changes to routing would be subject to fare rules, including change fees and fare differences.

This is not like award fares, where you can call and change when availability opens up. Once you purchase the ticket, you can only change routing in the case there is a delay, cancellation, schedule change etc. without charge.

Also, in my experience, once a GUC has been redeemed and you have been reticketed in business, that's it - the GUC T&C states that you cannot have it back under any circumstances (unless, as huskerchad has commented, you can exchange with another flight with immediately availability in OP class, due to delays, cancellations, schedule changes, etc.). Of course, YMMV depending on whom you talk to and the exact circumstances; I am just quoting the official rules and opining on your case thus far (I don't imagine them having much sympathy because you prefer different equipment, given they haven't changed it since you've booked, and the GUC T&Cs are publicly available).

DM agents have also always told me to wait until after the risk-free cancel period to redeem a RUC or GUC to make sure you didn't want to cancel the flights, as the certificates would be surrendered. To me, and per the GUC T&Cs I've quoted below, it seems like you are stuck with your current itinerary, unless you wish to cancel and also lose the GUCs you already redeemed.

"3. Refunds & Cash Value: This certificate is non-refundable and has no cash value. Certificate will be deemed fully used upon surrender and will not be honored retroactively or in connection with the exchange of any wholly or partially unused ticket. Ticket refunds are permitted only pursuant to the rules of the fare purchased. Any full or partial refund of the underlying Main Cabin fare ticket after upgrade will render this certificate void.


14. Changes: Voluntary changes in reservations on ticketed itineraries are permitted only pursuant to the rules of the fare purchased, but upgrade is not guaranteed and will depend on availability and these terms and conditions. Where permitted, changes may require payment of a change fee and/or any difference in the applicable fare. Any refund or cancellation will result in the loss of the upgrade certificate. All reissues must be completed by Delta reservations. If you are re-accommodated on another carrier you will be seated in Main Cabin."

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...tificates.html
To me, 14. says that if there's upgrade space on the new flights, you can pay the change fee (probably $250-450 on an international fare exUSA) and still use the GUC for the new flights.

The OP is trying to change a ticket, not refund/cancel it.
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Old Jun 9, 16, 1:51 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
To me, 14. says that if there's upgrade space on the new flights, you can pay the change fee (probably $250-450 on an international fare exUSA) and still use the GUC for the new flights.

The OP is trying to change a ticket, not refund/cancel it.
Agreed on paying the change fee, but also the fare difference. It would be comparing the underlying main cabin fare, and that could end up pricey as some routings can be really expensive in main cabin internationally.

OP said they are within the 24 hour window and it sounded like they may attempt a Risk-Free cancel, hence my advice to remove the GUC request until the Risk-Free cancel period expires, at a minimum. 14 clearly states cancellations/refunds result in the loss of the GUC. DL may be flexible over the phone, but my point is they don't have to...especially if the OP leads with the flat-bed seat they already have (and has not changed since purchase) is not to their liking.
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Old Jun 9, 16, 1:54 pm
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Originally Posted by btonkid12345 View Post
Agreed on paying the change fee, but also the fare difference. It would be comparing the underlying main cabin fare, and that could end up pricey as some routings can be really expensive in main cabin internationally.

OP said they are within the 24 hour window and it sounded like they may attempt a Risk-Free cancel, hence my advice to remove the GUC request until the Risk-Free cancel period expires, at a minimum. 14 clearly states cancellations/refunds result in the loss of the GUC. DL may be flexible over the phone, but my point is they don't have to...especially if the OP leads with the flat-bed seat they already have (and has not changed since purchase) is not to their liking.
Of course the OP would pay any fare difference in addition to change fees.

My point is that 14. doesn't seem to say that the GUC is lost when changes are made, just that upgrade space isn't guaranteed on the new flights: you must find upgrade inventory class, OP or RP as applicable, to confirm into D1/FC with the GUC.
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Old Jun 9, 16, 2:59 pm
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Originally Posted by btonkid12345 View Post
Agreed on paying the change fee, but also the fare difference. It would be comparing the underlying main cabin fare, and that could end up pricey as some routings can be really expensive in main cabin internationally.

OP said they are within the 24 hour window and it sounded like they may attempt a Risk-Free cancel, hence my advice to remove the GUC request until the Risk-Free cancel period expires, at a minimum. 14 clearly states cancellations/refunds result in the loss of the GUC. DL may be flexible over the phone, but my point is they don't have to...especially if the OP leads with the flat-bed seat they already have (and has not changed since purchase) is not to their liking.
If you would scan post #1, I quote #14 from the DL web and then posed the question about how to resolve my reading of the text from what the DM agent told me today. I later clarified that I understood that acceptable changes could involve fare differences, change fees, and always the mandatory OP inventory.
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Old Jun 9, 16, 3:51 pm
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Originally Posted by btonkid12345 View Post
OP said they are within the 24 hour window and it sounded like they may attempt a Risk-Free cancel, hence my advice to remove the GUC request until the Risk-Free cancel period expires, at a minimum.
There is no need to do this. Re-issue into OP does not occur until the risk free period has expired, therefore there is never any risk of losing a GUC during the risk-free period.

Also, the risk free period is not 24 hours, which is the DOT guidance. Delta's risk-free cancellation policy is more generous, allowing cancellations until midnight the day after ticketing or midnight the day of departure, whichever comes first.
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