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Old Oct 11, 2017, 12:57 pm
  #181  
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Delta CEO: We will not pay the 300% tariff on new Bombardier C Series jets

http://www.businessinsider.com/delta...s-jets-2017-10

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/11/reut...ries-jets.html

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/10/del...riffs-cseries/

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Mods - posting this here as there is this C Series thread. If you prefer to separate out the tariff issues, feel free to move this post.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 1:41 pm
  #182  
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Originally Posted by 24left
Delta CEO: We will not pay the 300% tariff on new Bombardier C Series jets

http://www.businessinsider.com/delta...s-jets-2017-10

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/11/reut...ries-jets.html

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/10/del...riffs-cseries/

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Mods - posting this here as there is this C Series thread. If you prefer to separate out the tariff issues, feel free to move this post.
I don't care for much of what Bastian has to say, but if his plan is to take the jets and then middle finger the US Govt over this stupid tariff decision, then I take my hat off to him.

I am a die-hard Boeing supporter, but this deal makes them look like complete idiots - first, Boeing also takes government subsidies in many forms, second, they don't manufacturer a competing aircraft, and third, they run the risk of being shut out of the Canadian and UK military and civilian aircraft markets going forward, costing them billions in lost sales.

Penny-wise, pound-foolish.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 1:48 pm
  #183  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
I don't care for much of what Bastian has to say, but if his plan is to take the jets and then middle finger the US Govt over this stupid tariff decision, then I take my hat off to him.

I am a die-hard Boeing supporter, but this deal makes them look like complete idiots - first, Boeing also takes government subsidies in many forms, second, they don't manufacturer a competing aircraft, and third, they run the risk of being shut out of the Canadian and UK military and civilian aircraft markets going forward, costing them billions in lost sales.

Penny-wise, pound-foolish.
No foreign country with any sort of commercial aircraft manufacturing interest should do business with Boeing after this one. The slippery slope here is real.

What's to stop Boeing from influencing the Feds to do the same thing to Embraer or Airbus?
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 1:54 pm
  #184  
 
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Originally Posted by WWads
No foreign country with any sort of commercial aircraft manufacturing interest should do business with Boeing after this one. The slippery slope here is real.

What's to stop Boeing from influencing the Feds to do the same thing to Embraer or Airbus?
The problem is with too much consolidation in the aerospace (and most) industries, the only real competition to Boeing is Airbus. And they literally don't have the capacity to meet global aviation demand.

So even if people wanted to stop doing business with Boeing, it's nearly impossible.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 2:07 pm
  #185  
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Originally Posted by WWads
No foreign country with any sort of commercial aircraft manufacturing interest should do business with Boeing after this one. The slippery slope here is real.

What's to stop Boeing from influencing the Feds to do the same thing to Embraer or Airbus?
So Boeing loses Air France and Lufthansa as Boeing customers. LH only has an extremely tiny fleet of 747's. Hardly as loss.

Delta started this whole mess. If they had just thrown Boeing some orders this would have been avoided. Both AA and UA have managed to give orders to both. Delta hasn't given Boeing an order in almost a decade.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 2:10 pm
  #186  
 
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare
So Boeing loses Air France and Lufthansa as Boeing customers. LH only has an extremely tiny fleet of 747's. Hardly as loss.

Delta started this whole mess. If they had just thrown Boeing some orders this would have been avoided. Both AA and UA have managed to give orders to both. Delta hasn't given Boeing an order in almost a decade.
And yet the 739s continue to be delivered.

You speak as if Boeing is entitled to orders. It's not. The competition provided DL with better options, and Boeing lost out. I would be happy if DL never ordered another uncomfortable, sardine-can from Boeing ever again.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 2:15 pm
  #187  
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Originally Posted by WWads
And yet the 739s continue to be delivered.

You speak as if Boeing is entitled to orders. It's not. The competition provided DL with better options, and Boeing lost out. I would be happy if DL never ordered another uncomfortable, sardine-can from Boeing ever again.
But everyone said that AA, UA, and DL would be too big to order from just A or B and would have to order from both manufacturers. Were they lying?

I think Richard Anderson needs to be investigated along with the Airbus executives who are now facing a corruption investigation. It turns out Airbus was using dirty sales tactics such as middlemen to close sales. Have you read about that?
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 2:18 pm
  #188  
 
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare
But everyone said that AA, UA, and DL would be too big to order from just A or B and would have to order from both manufacturers. Were they lying?

I think Richard Anderson needs to be investigated along with the Airbus executives who are now facing a corruption investigation. It turns out Airbus was using dirty sales tactics such as middlemen to close sales. Have you read about that?
Oh I'm sure that Airbus throws kittens into jet engines too.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 2:30 pm
  #189  
 
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Originally Posted by WWads
No foreign country with any sort of commercial aircraft manufacturing interest should do business with Boeing after this one. The slippery slope here is real.

What's to stop Boeing from influencing the Feds to do the same thing to Embraer or Airbus?
I don't understand this. Bombardier clearly and blatantly broke the law. They took a large government subsidy and used it to sell below market value. That is illegal. Bombardier hasn't even bothered to argue their innocence because there's nothing to argue.

All that Boeing did is request that the law be enforced. Boeing didn't write the law. It seems like you're so eager to blame Boeing, regardless of the facts.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 2:38 pm
  #190  
 
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare
Delta started this whole mess. If they had just thrown Boeing some orders this would have been avoided. Both AA and UA have managed to give orders to both. Delta hasn't given Boeing an order in almost a decade.
What?? That's not even close to being true. DL placed orders for 739s in 2011, 2015 and 2017.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 2:40 pm
  #191  
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Originally Posted by kjnangre
What?? That's not even close to being true. DL placed orders for 739s in 2011, 2015 and 2017.
I only count it as 2011. The remaining orders were just options.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 2:50 pm
  #192  
 
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I am interested to see when DL orders Boeing planes again and if this will affect it.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 3:02 pm
  #193  
 
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Originally Posted by bergamini
I am interested to see when DL orders Boeing planes again and if this will affect it.
Unless the prices are too low to ignore, I'm going with never.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 3:20 pm
  #194  
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Originally Posted by WWads
Unless the prices are too low to ignore, I'm going with never.
I would think the shareholders would have something to say about that. If DL shows that they are playing favorites they can be held accountable for it. Airbus also doesn't have a 767 or 757 solution. Boeing is building the MOM.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 3:25 pm
  #195  
 
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The overreaction in this thread is entertaining.
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