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DL applies for Haneda slots: ATL/LAX/MSP

DL applies for Haneda slots: ATL/LAX/MSP

Old Apr 27, 16, 1:53 am
  #106  
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Does anyone know what the priority request for DL is? Is it LAX/ATL/MSP?
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Old Apr 27, 16, 2:48 am
  #107  
 
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1. LAX
2. MSP
3. ATL

Very bold by DL. I don't think anyone would have faulted them for trying DTW again.
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Old Apr 27, 16, 8:44 am
  #108  
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Delta has cancelled LAX-NRT, effective October 29, when it moves its LAX-HND flight to daytime operating hours.

Everyone claimed that AA would cancel its LAX-NRT flight when it began flying LAX-HND, but so far, no cancellation.
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Old Apr 27, 16, 9:06 am
  #109  
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Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
Delta has cancelled LAX-NRT, effective October 29, when it moves its LAX-HND flight to daytime operating hours.

Everyone claimed that AA would cancel its LAX-NRT flight when it began flying LAX-HND, but so far, no cancellation.
WOW, but I guess LAX has lots of options with SkyTeam partners for other Asian destinations.

However, at this point, is DL guaranteed a daytime slot for LAX-HND?
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Old Apr 27, 16, 9:08 am
  #110  
 
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
WOW, but I guess LAX has lots of options with SkyTeam partners for other Asian destinations.

However, at this point, is DL guaranteed a daytime slot for LAX-HND?
Until April 2017, yes.

The four incumbents were each allowed to move their existing nighttime flights to the daytime temporarily. They were required to apply from scratch for service beginning in the IATA summer 2017 season, which is this current proceeding.
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Old Apr 27, 16, 9:09 am
  #111  
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The incumbent carriers will move their existing HND flights to daytime slots effective October 29, 2016, thru next April, so DL is guaranteed LAX-HND for the next 12 months.

If DL doesn't win LAX-HND (I think DL will prevail on LAX-HND), it could always re-start LAX-NRT next April.
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Old Apr 27, 16, 9:18 am
  #112  
 
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Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
Delta has cancelled LAX-NRT, effective October 29, when it moves its LAX-HND flight to daytime operating hours.

Everyone claimed that AA would cancel its LAX-NRT flight when it began flying LAX-HND, but so far, no cancellation.
I guess, without checking schedules to see if connections actually work, DL's only connections from NRT that aren't served nonstop from LAX or via SEA are BKK, GUM, ROR, MNL, KIX, SPN, SIN, and TPE (and MNL, KIX, and TPE have nonstop options on competing carriers); if they think most of the local traffic will go via HND once there's a daytime flight, it would be tough to keep the NRT plane profitably full. But this certainly looks like a death spiral for the NRT hub (and DL wants to make sure the DOT knows it and how aggrieved DL is).
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Old Apr 27, 16, 9:43 am
  #113  
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Delta's west coast view appears to be this: if you're flying LAX-TYO, then DL has you covered with a nonstop to HND. If you're planning to connect at NRT to one of the destinations you listed, then DL has you covered with a nonstop from SEA.
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Old Apr 27, 16, 9:49 am
  #114  
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Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
Delta's west coast view appears to be this: if you're flying LAX-TYO, then DL has you covered with a nonstop to HND. If you're planning to connect at NRT to one of the destinations you listed, then DL has you covered with a nonstop from SEA.
.......or if you're flying elsewhere, you're collateral damage as you're not going to voluntarily double connect when there are nonstops and one stop service from LAX.
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Old Apr 27, 16, 10:07 am
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Wow. Raise your hand if you saw this coming as I sure didn't. I'd have to think DL will upgrade the 76T used on LAX-HND to a 777 to offset the loss in capacity. Helps its daytime so DL shouldn't have a problem filling the plane. This might be the REAL beginning of the end for DL's NRT operation. PDX-NRT is likely gone sooner or later (Sorry Nike) and management has indicated MSP-NRT is gone as well. If ATL-HND is approved, which I believe it will, DL might be down to just SEA/DTW/JFK/HNL-NRT as early as next year.
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Old Apr 27, 16, 10:14 am
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Longboater View Post
Wow. Raise your hand if you saw this coming as I sure didn't. I'd have to think DL will upgrade the 76T used on LAX-HND to a 777 to offset the loss in capacity. Helps its daytime so DL shouldn't have a problem filling the plane. This might be the REAL beginning of the end for DL's NRT operation. PDX-NRT is likely gone sooner or later (Sorry Nike) and management has indicated MSP-NRT is gone as well. If ATL-HND is approved, which I believe it will, DL might be down to just SEA/DTW/JFK/HNL-NRT as early as next year.
Next step will be down gauging and reducing frequencies of the intraAsia routes exNRT, followed rapidly by elimination of these routes.

At that point, the only decent way to get to airports in Asia not served by DL nonstops from the USA (unfortunately mostly from SEA) will involve KE through ICN or maybe China Airlines through TPE. Unfortunately we earn few if any DL miles on KE flights. Mainland China connections are an unpleasant hassle, and one has to rely on DL applying the TWOV rules correctly, so that's not an option for many people. Other Asian SkyTeam partners have limited networks.
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Old Apr 27, 16, 11:18 am
  #117  
 
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Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
Delta's west coast view appears to be this: if you're flying LAX-TYO, then DL has you covered with a nonstop to HND. If you're planning to connect at NRT to one of the destinations you listed, then DL has you covered with a nonstop from SEA.
The destinations I listed are the ones with no nonstop from SEA.

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
.......or if you're flying elsewhere, you're collateral damage as you're not going to voluntarily double connect when there are nonstops and one stop service from LAX.
As I noted, there are a grand total of eight destinations (2-4 of which are beach destinations, depending on how you count) which lose one-stop connecting options from LAX with this change. And if you're talking about XXX-LAX-NRT-YYY connections, there are very few if any cities which don't have XXX-SEA/PDX/MSP/DTW/ATL-NRT-YYY service that would be a drop-in replacement (if there isn't XXX-SEA-YYY service).

I do agree that DL appears fine with losing some connecting traffic to cities in Asia they can't economically serve from SEA either due to distance (SIN) or because they're secondary cities. They very obviously think that it's more cost-effective to serve what they can via SEA and cover everything else with MU and other Asian partners, and they're doing what they can to build up partnerships in Asia with limited success so far.

Your antipathy to SEA just makes no sense to me. I don't understand why you seem to think that DL should keep the NRT hub when SEA is a more profitable option for them (since they can operate a much larger feeding operation at lower cost and with more ability to serve local traffic to balance revenues) simply because you dislike connecting over SEA for some reason, even though SEA-China etc is comparable in distance to MSP/LAX-NRT, so the long haul flight is similar length.
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Old Apr 27, 16, 11:26 am
  #118  
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Originally Posted by ashill View Post
The destinations I listed are the ones with no nonstop from SEA.
I worded it poorly, but I obviously meant a nonstop from SEA to NRT, where they can connect.
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Old Apr 27, 16, 11:53 am
  #119  
 
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Next step will be down gauging and reducing frequencies of the intraAsia routes exNRT, followed rapidly by elimination of these routes.

At that point, the only decent way to get to airports in Asia not served by DL nonstops from the USA (unfortunately mostly from SEA) will involve KE through ICN or maybe China Airlines through TPE. Unfortunately we earn few if any DL miles on KE flights. Mainland China connections are an unpleasant hassle, and one has to rely on DL applying the TWOV rules correctly, so that's not an option for many people. Other Asian SkyTeam partners have limited networks.
The only routes I can think of that are safe short term are NRT-MNL/BKK/SIN. SEA-TPE is inevitable once the A350s start showing up.
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Old Apr 27, 16, 12:12 pm
  #120  
 
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Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
I worded it poorly, but I obviously meant a nonstop from SEA to NRT, where they can connect.
Ah. Makes much more sense.
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