DL applies for Haneda slots: ATL/LAX/MSP
#16
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Except that's not really what HA applied for. Its first choice is HNL daytime. Second bid is a second daytime slot split. Third is the spit for a night slot. Giving everyone else first or second choice and relegating HA to third, especially when it is the HND service which has actually operated since awarded, would be a significant slight to the company.
#17
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Agreed. HA and AS are probably the two most upstanding airlines in the US. You never hear anything bad coming out of them and the seem to provide a consistent product and service. HA should be given priority in this slot proceeding. The other three airlines have played around with HND far too much. It's disgusting.
#18
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No way. If JL and NH keep their HNL flights and HA gets 2, then 1/3rd of the flights would be to Hawaii. That doesn't promote gateway diversity at all, and the whole issue of why HA was so successful with HND had less to do with the airline and more to do with the destination.
#19
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AA, DL, and UA (and the government) didn't know how badly the flights would do with the time restrictions until they tried. Now they do know. But with comparable times, existing USA-TYO flights should be a good model for how USA-HND flights will do, just as they are in Canada-HND (which has had daytime flights for a while), I believe.
#20
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Hawaii is a beach (leisure) market. They can fill seats, but yields will be low.
#21
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2. The reason for their failures are no longer relevant for this new allocation proceeding.
3. Anyone would have succeeded with HND-HNL.
#22
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I doubt HAL gets another slot as DOT has repeatedly stated the primary purpose of these flights are for business travelers and while HNL sees plenty of business from Japan, KOA would market almost exclusively toward Japanese leisure travelers. KOA-HND would be great for West Hawai'i but that's pretty much it.
Very interesting choices by UA/DL/AA. I don't believe UA is a virtual shoo-in at EWR as ANA will likely start JFK-HND. I'd be surprised if MSP-HND is approved and it's apparent DL is serious about ending Tokyo service from MSP if its rejected. I will have to read DL's application to see how whiny they are about this whole process, which it turn could annoy DOT to the point where they only receive one HND flight. AA's application for DFW/LAX-HND is quite strong, considering they are reporting a whopping 91.5% LF on LAX-HND since it started. And this is combined with continuing LAX-NRT. It helps AA is using a 788 for the route but their application mentions they are seriously considering upgauging the flight if daytime slot is approved for LAX. So HAL HNL-HND, AA LAX-HND, UA SFO-HND, DL LAX-HND are pretty much locked in with HNL-HND remaining as nighttime. DL's ATL-HND, AA's DFW-HND, and UA's EWR-HND will fight over the two new slots. Could end up being decided how much DOT is willing to put up with DL's constant complaining about HND.
Very interesting choices by UA/DL/AA. I don't believe UA is a virtual shoo-in at EWR as ANA will likely start JFK-HND. I'd be surprised if MSP-HND is approved and it's apparent DL is serious about ending Tokyo service from MSP if its rejected. I will have to read DL's application to see how whiny they are about this whole process, which it turn could annoy DOT to the point where they only receive one HND flight. AA's application for DFW/LAX-HND is quite strong, considering they are reporting a whopping 91.5% LF on LAX-HND since it started. And this is combined with continuing LAX-NRT. It helps AA is using a 788 for the route but their application mentions they are seriously considering upgauging the flight if daytime slot is approved for LAX. So HAL HNL-HND, AA LAX-HND, UA SFO-HND, DL LAX-HND are pretty much locked in with HNL-HND remaining as nighttime. DL's ATL-HND, AA's DFW-HND, and UA's EWR-HND will fight over the two new slots. Could end up being decided how much DOT is willing to put up with DL's constant complaining about HND.
#24
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Im not doubting you but I guess I just don't understand this statement. ATL serves far more destinations than MSP. Especially if we are talking about south/central/Latin America, Mexico, and the Caribbean. Is there more demand for places like Tokyo-Fargo, ND? If so then yes MSP makes more sense.
It could also be available aircraft types and range and what DL would prefer to use on the route. MSP-HND is 5,981 miles while ATL-HND is 6,882 miles. If MSP-HND is within the range of the 767-300ER, while ATL-HND is not (and I don't have specs in front of me), I could see that being a factor too.
Last edited by ATOBTTR; Apr 22, 2016 at 7:26 am
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#27
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The upshot of this experience, to me, is that HND isn't so much more convenient than NRT that customers are willing to pay a premium to arrive and depart in the middle of the night just for the "convenience" of HND. Duh. I'd fly into IAD over DCA if the choice were to arrive at IAD at 1605 or to arrive at DCA at 2300 and depart at 1650 vs 0500. But I wouldn't take any more away from the failure of the nighttime HND flights than that.
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I'm not saying that is what will happen. I just wonder if that's a factor as MSP-HND is only ~200 miles longer than SEA-PVG, which is served with a 767.
Does anyone know when the new slots would take effect? I have an HND-LAX-SEA award in February 2017 (on AS for the LAX-SEA leg) so my reward options could get interesting if the flights change. I'm actually happy with the 12:10 AM departure right now since it allows me a full day in Tokyo before flying home. Worst case I have DL either 1) put me on the NRT-SEA nonstop or 2) since I'm in J and would love the upper deck, ask them to route me via DTW or JFK on wherever I can get a 747
Does anyone know when the new slots would take effect? I have an HND-LAX-SEA award in February 2017 (on AS for the LAX-SEA leg) so my reward options could get interesting if the flights change. I'm actually happy with the 12:10 AM departure right now since it allows me a full day in Tokyo before flying home. Worst case I have DL either 1) put me on the NRT-SEA nonstop or 2) since I'm in J and would love the upper deck, ask them to route me via DTW or JFK on wherever I can get a 747
#30
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Does anyone know when the new slots would take effect? I have an HND-LAX-SEA award in February 2017 (on AS for the LAX-SEA leg) so my reward options could get interesting if the flights change. I'm actually happy with the 12:10 AM departure right now since it allows me a full day in Tokyo before flying home. Worst case I have DL either 1) put me on the NRT-SEA nonstop or 2) since I'm in J and would love the upper deck, ask them to route me via DTW or JFK on wherever I can get a 747
Incumbents temporarily keep their current awards for now (but get to fly them during the daytime as of October 30) thru the Winter season, as daytime HND slots must be requested by May 20 or so.
In February, 2017, DL will be flying HND-LAX during "normal" Japan departure times (probably 1800 or 1830 departure to LAX). Plan accordingly.