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DL applies for Haneda slots: ATL/LAX/MSP

DL applies for Haneda slots: ATL/LAX/MSP

Old Jul 20, 16, 12:39 pm
  #196  
 
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Originally Posted by sbm12 View Post
It is not just if DL stops flying. I can see the DoT getting upset if the MSP-HND route is downgauged, too.





KEF has MSP and JFK service.


For the one remaining US-carrier flight to China DL and AA both applied for LAX-PEK service; MSP-PVG isn't happening anytime soon and was not a priority for Delta.
Yeah, I inartfully said the KEF bit. I was meaning it's the only international destination served over just MSP and one other hub. HND (LAX and MSP) and KEF (JFK and MSP).

And yes, I'm aware of the problem with China slots. That's why I noted it in my comment. It's probably coming after ATL, though ATL-PVG may come from the slots DL current uses at NRT. But I'd still like to see it.
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Old Jul 20, 16, 1:57 pm
  #197  
 
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What do you think happens to PDX-NRT?
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Old Jul 20, 16, 4:04 pm
  #198  
 
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Originally Posted by jjka View Post
What do you think happens to PDX-NRT?
In addition to PDX-NRT, will Delta continue to fly:
ATL-NRT
JFK-NRT
DTW-NRT
SEA-NRT
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Old Jul 20, 16, 4:19 pm
  #199  
 
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The interesting thing is that, while this will retain a "link to Asia" from MSP, it will create a number of two-stop itineraries to major destinations that have historically been only one-stop, e.g. TPE, GUM, BKK, SIN, and MNL.

It will also reduce the total number of seats from the mainland to these destinations, potential driving airfare and mileage redemption rates even higher.

The above is assuming that Delta will not operate simultaneous flights from MSP to Haneda and Narita, which seems likely, given Delta's public comments as well as actions out of LAX.

While this is a win for the MSP hub in gaining better access to downtown Tokyo, it is also a loss for MSP -- and connecting passengers -- in the overall access to the rest of Asia.

In my opinion, Delta's lack of a JV/ATI with Korean Air, as well as a lack of onward flights from ICN, leaves DL/SkyTeam worse off than the other alliances by a wide margin.

Last edited by TheMoose; Jul 20, 16 at 4:24 pm
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Old Jul 20, 16, 4:51 pm
  #200  
 
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Originally Posted by TheMoose View Post
While this is a win for the MSP hub in gaining better access to downtown Tokyo, it is also a loss for MSP -- and connecting passengers -- in the overall access to the rest of Asia.
Indeed, mixed bag for MSP. This should increase loads ex-LAX and SEA for the onward double-connectors from the Midwest to Asia (or at least those who don't defect to other carriers/alliances who offer single stops via LAX or SFO).
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Old Jul 20, 16, 7:39 pm
  #201  
 
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This is a major victory for MSP. DL was implying MSP-NRT was going to be discontinued regardless of the DOT's decision. PDX-NRT is gone by the end of next year, along with NRT-PVG. That slot will move to either LAX-PEK or ATL-PVG. DL sounds pretty serious on wanting to operate LAX-PEK regardless of how DOT rules. Partially has to do with DL opening an 777 base there. On a side note, the A350s will be based out of DTW/SEA.
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Old Jul 20, 16, 11:25 pm
  #202  
 
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Originally Posted by Dieuwer View Post
So, the only way to get to HND from the East Coast on an US-flagged carrier is to fly via MSP? (And not being insane like flying to LAX first...)
I don't think it's insane to fly to LAX first. I would much rather go JFK-LAX-HND in J than JFK-MSP-HND in F/J.
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Old Jul 21, 16, 1:52 am
  #203  
 
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Anyone know what the arrival/departure times would be?
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Old Jul 21, 16, 2:13 am
  #204  
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Originally Posted by jrkmsp View Post
And yes, I'm aware of the problem with China slots. That's why I noted it in my comment. It's probably coming after ATL, though ATL-PVG may come from the slots DL current uses at NRT.
Assuming you mean the NRT-PVG slot, it is unclear to me that the bilateral allows that to be moved to the US mainland, though I'd have to do some digging to be sure.
Originally Posted by LETTERBOY View Post
Anyone know what the arrival/departure times would be?
Daytime. Specific slots (and times) will require getting approval from the JAA's slot management team so might not be possible until the Summer '17 schedule.
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Old Jul 21, 16, 4:47 am
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With the loss of LAX-RDU, and the increased focus on SEA in general, I would sure love it if DL added RDU-SEA to feed some of those SEA flights. The Alaska RDU-SEA flight doesn't help for getting to HKG in one stop, and I don't know if you can even book that flight through DL. It doesn't seem to show up on DL's website.
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Old Jul 21, 16, 5:44 am
  #206  
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Originally Posted by Longboater View Post
This is a major victory for MSP. DL was implying MSP-NRT was going to be discontinued regardless of the DOT's decision. PDX-NRT is gone by the end of next year, along with NRT-PVG. That slot will move to either LAX-PEK or ATL-PVG. DL sounds pretty serious on wanting to operate LAX-PEK regardless of how DOT rules. Partially has to do with DL opening an 777 base there. On a side note, the A350s will be based out of DTW/SEA.
I highly doubt NRT-PVG can be moved to anything other then maybe HND. To do otherwise would require a change to the US/China agreement. Now I could see DL moving it to HND and operating MSP-PVG direct via the MSP-HND flight. I'm not sure if the Japan/China governments would allow it, but that would seem the most likely.
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Old Jul 21, 16, 6:34 am
  #207  
 
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
I highly doubt NRT-PVG can be moved to anything other then maybe HND. To do otherwise would require a change to the US/China agreement. Now I could see DL moving it to HND and operating MSP-PVG direct via the MSP-HND flight. I'm not sure if the Japan/China governments would allow it, but that would seem the most likely.
It can be moved, just as NRT-PEK was moved to DTW-PEK and NRT-CAN was moved to SEA-PEK.
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Old Jul 21, 16, 6:36 am
  #208  
 
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Originally Posted by jrkmsp View Post
It's a big victory for Delta's MSP operation. It gets a fairly unique route in the system (KEF being the only other international destination served over only one hub) and it managed to hold onto its sole Asian connection. Now if only it could get a PVG flight (which is dependent on more US-China slots), things would be swell up here.
Huh? There are tons of int'l points with service to a single hub/gateway.

I'd be surprised if the flight lasts more than 6-12 months tops. Any substantive deviation from daily year round service will result in the authority defaulting to AA/DFW. That said it will be fun hearing DL plead that less than daily service is the norm on TYO routes operated by U.S. carriers. Myself and the team at Centreport will have the popcorn ready...
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Old Jul 21, 16, 6:43 am
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Originally Posted by AAerSTL View Post
Huh? There are tons of int'l points with service to a single hub/gateway.

I'd be surprised if the flight lasts more than 6-12 months tops. Any substantive deviation from daily year round service will result in the authority defaulting to AA/DFW. That said it will be fun hearing DL plead that less than daily service is the norm on TYO routes operated by U.S. carriers. Myself and the team at Centreport will have the popcorn ready...
Are you assuming MSP-NRT does not receive the axe? I have the assumption that MSP/PDX-NRT will be cancelled and NRT-PVG will be moved elsewhere as DL has alluded to with the opening up of HND. (Fate of NRT-PVG depends entirely on how DOT rules on LAX-PEK as AA and DL have both applied for seven of the nine available China slots. If AA receives it, which I expect they will, DL can just as easily launch LAX-PEK as long as they end NRT-PVG. In fact, I expect them to do so as DL solidifies its position at LAX.) While MSP-NRT will be cancelled, MSP-HND will still give the city of Minneapolis access to downtown TYO. Since its daytime, I assume the flight will do just fine.
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Old Jul 21, 16, 6:48 am
  #210  
 
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Originally Posted by laxrdu View Post
With the loss of LAX-RDU, and the increased focus on SEA in general, I would sure love it if DL added RDU-SEA to feed some of those SEA flights.

What do you mean the loss of LAX-RDU? Google Flights is showing it operating through June 14, 2017, and that's due to the schedule only being loaded 330 days out.

https://www.google.com/flights/#sear...6-14;tt=o;a=DL
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