Delta threatens to pull MSP-NRT flight
Feb 19, 2016, 2:40 pm
#91
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I don't know ATL's numbers. DL disclosed the average # of originating pax per day on the following NRT flights: 57 from DTW and 24 from MSP. You'll find these in the different articles linked from this thread.
My guess is ATL would be higher than DTW, but not by much.
Are you counting every sushi restaurant in Portland? The facts are 1) MSP's O/D to NRT is small, 2) MSP is a larger metro area with higher GDP than PDX, and 3) dontcha know they have the most Fortune 500 companies (per capita).
There are probably ~5 cities in the US that can generate enough O/D for a daily NRT flight and PDX, MSP, DTW, ATL aren't on that list.
My guess is ATL would be higher than DTW, but not by much.
Source? What makes you "think" that?
Also worth a mention, Portland, Oregon hosts over 130 Japanese companies and this number doesn't include the entire state of Oregon.
Intel, like Nike, also is buying a ton of PDX-NRT-PVG flights as Shanghai is Intel's number one destination in Asia. Delta would do very well PDX-PVG with support from both Nike and Intel.
Also worth a mention, Portland, Oregon hosts over 130 Japanese companies and this number doesn't include the entire state of Oregon.
Intel, like Nike, also is buying a ton of PDX-NRT-PVG flights as Shanghai is Intel's number one destination in Asia. Delta would do very well PDX-PVG with support from both Nike and Intel.
There are probably ~5 cities in the US that can generate enough O/D for a daily NRT flight and PDX, MSP, DTW, ATL aren't on that list.
Feb 19, 2016, 3:46 pm
#92
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Are you counting every sushi restaurant in Portland? The facts are 1) MSP's O/D to NRT is small, 2) MSP is a larger metro area with higher GDP than PDX, and 3) dontcha know they have the most Fortune 500 companies (per capita).
There are probably ~5 cities in the US that can generate enough O/D for a daily NRT flight and PDX, MSP, DTW, ATL aren't on that list.
http://www.portland.us.emb-japan.go....00_000097.html
" First, the number of Japanese companies in Oregon increased to about 140 firms."
Some other interesting facts about the relationship of Oregon and Japan:
http://www.portland.us.emb-japan.go....06）.pdf
The point is that PDX is much more likely to have nonstops to Asia than MSP due to stronger business and cultural ties. Being on the west coast also helps PDX's case for nonstops the Asia.
Feb 19, 2016, 5:34 pm
#93
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 2
Sure, MSP's O/D to NRT may be small, but some of that is likely Delta's doing - their prices encourage us to connect. I was booking a D1 ticket from MSP to NRT a few months ago and saved ~$2k by connecting in LAX vs. taking the direct flight. It's unlikely that my corporate travel policy is the only one around here that encourages/rewards/requires that kind of behavior...
Feb 19, 2016, 8:02 pm
#94
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More context about the PDX-NRT flight:
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/in...a_critica.html
A highlight: "In 2014, more than 145,000 visitors from China, Japan, Korea and Taiwan spent time in Oregon and spent in excess of $80 million during their stay. Many of these passengers arrived on the Delta's nonstop flight from Japan."
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/in...a_critica.html
A highlight: "In 2014, more than 145,000 visitors from China, Japan, Korea and Taiwan spent time in Oregon and spent in excess of $80 million during their stay. Many of these passengers arrived on the Delta's nonstop flight from Japan."
Feb 19, 2016, 8:08 pm
#95
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More context about the PDX-NRT flight:
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/in...a_critica.html
A highlight: "In 2014, more than 145,000 visitors from China, Japan, Korea and Taiwan spent time in Oregon and spent in excess of $80 million during their stay. Many of these passengers arrived on the Delta's nonstop flight from Japan."
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/in...a_critica.html
A highlight: "In 2014, more than 145,000 visitors from China, Japan, Korea and Taiwan spent time in Oregon and spent in excess of $80 million during their stay. Many of these passengers arrived on the Delta's nonstop flight from Japan."
Feb 19, 2016, 8:10 pm
#96
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Note that they operate just the number of flights into Japan as needed to fly routes out of Japan to non-US locations. Some of these flights probably only exist to ensure they can continue to offer service to interport destinations. As soon as they can use MU they won't need to fly as many US-NRT flights.
Feb 19, 2016, 10:42 pm
#97
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For the 12 mo ended November, 2014, PDX-TYO had 53 passengers daily each way (PDEW). DTW had 52 PDEW and ATL had 49 PDEW. Those three cities were ranked 12th, 13th and 15th in a ranking of USA-TYO O&D.
The top three cities were LAX at 593 PDEW, NYC at 478 PDEW and SFO at 292 PDEW.
SEA featured 129 PDEW, just three fewer than ORD.
The data is MIDT data courtesy of AA's application to take away DL's SEA-HND flight.
It's clear that PDX-NRT would not be viable without some connections at NRT, while DTW and ATL could exist without NRT connections due to the large hubs on this end.
Feb 20, 2016, 1:56 am
#98
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Here are some actual Tokyo O&D numbers:
For the 12 mo ended November, 2014, PDX-TYO had 53 passengers daily each way (PDEW). DTW had 52 PDEW and ATL had 49 PDEW. Those three cities were ranked 12th, 13th and 15th in a ranking of USA-TYO O&D.
The top three cities were LAX at 593 PDEW, NYC at 478 PDEW and SFO at 292 PDEW.
SEA featured 129 PDEW, just three fewer than ORD.
The data is MIDT data courtesy of AA's application to take away DL's SEA-HND flight.
It's clear that PDX-NRT would not be viable without some connections at NRT, while DTW and ATL could exist without NRT connections due to the large hubs on this end.
For the 12 mo ended November, 2014, PDX-TYO had 53 passengers daily each way (PDEW). DTW had 52 PDEW and ATL had 49 PDEW. Those three cities were ranked 12th, 13th and 15th in a ranking of USA-TYO O&D.
The top three cities were LAX at 593 PDEW, NYC at 478 PDEW and SFO at 292 PDEW.
SEA featured 129 PDEW, just three fewer than ORD.
The data is MIDT data courtesy of AA's application to take away DL's SEA-HND flight.
It's clear that PDX-NRT would not be viable without some connections at NRT, while DTW and ATL could exist without NRT connections due to the large hubs on this end.
Feb 20, 2016, 5:58 am
#99
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Sure, MSP's O/D to NRT may be small, but some of that is likely Delta's doing - their prices encourage us to connect. I was booking a D1 ticket from MSP to NRT a few months ago and saved ~$2k by connecting in LAX vs. taking the direct flight. It's unlikely that my corporate travel policy is the only one around here that encourages/rewards/requires that kind of behavior...
Feb 20, 2016, 7:01 am
#100
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Is PDX still known as "Deportland"? Apparently many Japanese people have avoided entering the US through PDX as they have a much higher chance of being sent back home on the next flight. This was a small factor in Delta's failure to make PDX an Asia gateway back in the 90's.
Feb 20, 2016, 9:00 am
#101
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I'd think very few. Of course, this is where someone pops in to say "Mall of America", but it ain't the draw it used to be and I am sure a great many of the "tourists" that visit it are regional tourists.
I'd question just how extensive MSP's international business travel is. Not sure how reliable the below is, but it isn't completely out of whack with the Mastercard survey (which stops at 10 NA cities), but I'm confident that MSP is well-outside the top 20.
https://skift.com/2014/06/18/20-most...elers-in-2013/
Heck, even including domestic travelers, MSP fails to crack Tripadvisor's top 25 rankings. Anyone that has been to MN in winter can readily tell you why that is the case.
At the end of the day, I'd think that MSP relies almost entirely on the O side of O/D to attract international visitors. And on that front, there seem to be a few factors working against MSP-origin traffic to Asia. Chief among them is the very domestic-oriented businesses in MSP. People (rightly) point to the large number of Fortune 500 HQs in the MSP area as evidence of the quality of the business climate and work force. The problem, from an international O/D perspective, is that virtually every single one of them is almost exclusively domestically focused. Yeah, I'm sure Target buyers head overseas from time to time, but the MSP areas simply lacks the sort of companies driving high-volume, high-yield international travel.
Let's be honest, business travelers account for a decent percentage of air travel, but personal travel still out number them. Asian leisure travelers would probably prefer LAX, SFO or JFK as a stop over where they can stay a few days then continue on (making an assumption here based on cultural experience).
https://skift.com/2014/06/18/20-most...elers-in-2013/
Heck, even including domestic travelers, MSP fails to crack Tripadvisor's top 25 rankings. Anyone that has been to MN in winter can readily tell you why that is the case.
At the end of the day, I'd think that MSP relies almost entirely on the O side of O/D to attract international visitors. And on that front, there seem to be a few factors working against MSP-origin traffic to Asia. Chief among them is the very domestic-oriented businesses in MSP. People (rightly) point to the large number of Fortune 500 HQs in the MSP area as evidence of the quality of the business climate and work force. The problem, from an international O/D perspective, is that virtually every single one of them is almost exclusively domestically focused. Yeah, I'm sure Target buyers head overseas from time to time, but the MSP areas simply lacks the sort of companies driving high-volume, high-yield international travel.
Feb 20, 2016, 9:30 am
#102
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Originally Posted by New York Times
''Monstrous'' is the word used by Portland's mayor, Vera Katz. The executive director of the Port of Portland says the city's reputation has been tarred by ''Gestapo-type actions.'' A state senator here says the conduct in question is ''racist and xenophobic.'' And United States Senator Gordon H. Smith, a Republican, put it this way today, ''We don't want Portland to be known as ''Deportland.''
All four are talking about the conduct of the local branch of the federal Immigration and Naturalization Service. The furor has been fanned by the recent strip-search and two-night jailing of a Chinese businesswoman who had landed here on her way to New York. But public officials were already concerned that immigration agents were detaining or deporting foreign travelers at a much higher rate than at other West Coast airports.
For Portland, which labored mightily to persuade Delta Air Lines to establish a minihub here with nonstop flights to Asia, the controversy over the immigration office has been a blow to the city's image abroad. The South China Morning Post reported recently that the city was already known as ''Deportland'' in some Asian countries, and the Kyodo News Service of Japan has also reported on the problems, prompting some Japanese travel agencies to advise their customers to avoid flying through Portland if possible.
Delta has already scaled back its cross-Pacific flights to Portland to two a day, both from Japan, having once had four daily nonstops, including flights from Seoul, South Korea, and Taipei, Taiwan.
All four are talking about the conduct of the local branch of the federal Immigration and Naturalization Service. The furor has been fanned by the recent strip-search and two-night jailing of a Chinese businesswoman who had landed here on her way to New York. But public officials were already concerned that immigration agents were detaining or deporting foreign travelers at a much higher rate than at other West Coast airports.
For Portland, which labored mightily to persuade Delta Air Lines to establish a minihub here with nonstop flights to Asia, the controversy over the immigration office has been a blow to the city's image abroad. The South China Morning Post reported recently that the city was already known as ''Deportland'' in some Asian countries, and the Kyodo News Service of Japan has also reported on the problems, prompting some Japanese travel agencies to advise their customers to avoid flying through Portland if possible.
Delta has already scaled back its cross-Pacific flights to Portland to two a day, both from Japan, having once had four daily nonstops, including flights from Seoul, South Korea, and Taipei, Taiwan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/31/us...h-the-ins.html
Feb 20, 2016, 10:46 am
#103
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More from the article available at the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/31/us...h-the-ins.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/31/us...h-the-ins.html
Feb 20, 2016, 12:09 pm
#104
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Feb 20, 2016, 1:54 pm
#105
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The PDX hub had more than just flights to Japan. There were a good number of Asia destinations served. I'm just going off what has been reported by DL employees. PDX CBP had/has a much higher rate of return.
