bennos

This posits you can find an 80K award fare. Except for some Chinese partners, I haven't seen low TPAC awards since last year.

Of course the 80K upgrade awards also require OP inventory, and unlike GUCs won't clear at the gate, so good luck with those, too. Both of these prices are imaginary, which I suppose is good since DL refuses to publish them.

gooselee

Sure, I mean, don't worry about the specific evidence to the contrary just a few posts up this thread. After all, if you can't find award space on the specific routes/dates/flights you want, that must mean it's non-existent across the board.

I also booked two RT tickets to N. Africa and returning from Europe last spring for 125k each in J. Other than a couple calls to manual reissue to tack on a positioning flight without getting into married segments, had no problem finding flights that worked for us, and our dates weren't even that flexible.

Where awards availability for you is "practically none," it is equally "practically plentiful" for people who happen to find what they need. Yes, it's a bit luck-of-the-draw, but these end of all times exaggerations are beginning to wear...

RealHJ

Dates are 331 days. Literally. Unlike some here, I don't just search for a few dates and few flights. I do a full 331 days, from today to 331 days from now, search, and all destinations that DL serves. So, when I say things, it's based on irrefutable hard evidence, based on many 10s (if not 100+) search sessions and checking all months/dates full 331 days out on all the routes that DL flies on.

But again, non-lie flat flights and domestic DL flights I don't care about, so my searches are limited to properly configured flights out of HNL (as I said), where I don't miss a single one. But, of course, don't let facts get you. I mean, snarky comments always come first in front of the truth or a simple thing know to others as facts. If you don't have anything constructive or helpful to say, why do you bother posting here in the first place?

I doubt that it's "practically plentiful" for others. "Practically painful" is more like it (when flights that always before, until Jan 1, 2015 you could get at 35K, now are often 375K one-way from full 331 days out while being completely empty - yes, more than 10 fold price increase, but true, that is comparing earlier normal to new SkyHigh).
But again, I haven't searched for flights out of ATL, for example. So who knows, may be out of some destinations and on some flights there is normal O (vs. Ox subset) availability. Most likely though the "practically plentiful" is overpaying for flights, like paying 375K that would have been 35K before (and is 35K ow or 70K RT with *A incl. 2 stopovers and open jaws still).

bennos

I'm assuming vincewy's post is your counterevidence

gooselee

So both you and RealHJ are ignoring my own examples of finding many TPACs on DL metal for 70k/80k, then? And I found them without much searching or trouble, and far less than 331 days out. And finding those seats (at least two of them per flight, in fact) in about half the days in a month doesn't scream "practically non-existent" or even painful at all to me.

I don't doubt others have seen inventory dry up on the routes and/or dates they want, or that DL has tightened up inventory overall. My point is that the sweeping generalizations and exaggerations that DL has ZERO low award inventory anymore and are blocking ALL partner awards are childish and unhelpful, and honestly tiresome.

Sometimes you can find them, sometimes you can't. It has gotten harder, but low awards are not gone by any means.

355F1

I haven't searched to find the wording on their website but have they removed/abandoned the "more award inventory at the lowest levels" bull crap they threw at us last year?

Or did that only to apply domestic Y, do ya think?

RealHJ

Not gone completely, no (and I never said that - only you did), but again you are talking about something else than what I was clearly talking about. Just search for, say, HNL-FUK, HNL-NGO, HNL-KIX, HNL-NRT (what I was actually talking about, vs. the very few limited flights/routes that you have searched for). Limit it to direct DL flights (if you don't, then CI and KE direct flights on HNL-NRT will comprise almost all of the normal priced ones). Look for full 331 days duration. I can guarantee to you that the flights you find at normal O pricing (was 35K, then 50K, as of Oct 1 is now an astonishing 60K) will be if not in single digits then in low two digits, out of 1655+ total. You will see a lot more crazy priced flights at 375K than you do at 50/60K normal O. But now as of late there are a few more normal O (and X) ones sprinkled in here and there; until a few weeks ago it was truly non-existent, but now DL seems to have put a few in here and there (once every few months, or some months may be two or three times)...but what DL giveth, DL also may taketh away any time.

As for other SkyTeam airline flights, also it's not completely gone - and I never said that, nor anyone did (again, just your imagination speaking making those sweeping generalized statements) - but it is getting worse and worse. Search for HNL-ICN. You will see that no direct KE flights (one or two daily, however it may be at the time - KE 51/52 & KE 53/54) are ever available in O or X: completely blocked, as of early 2015. Even some CI flights are starting to get the 1O limitation now straight from 331 days (no, not just one or two but systematic - depends on the routes and days of the week with a clear pattern). KE flights go on and off with Fri/Sat/Sun completely blocked, esp. for regional flights. VN A350 flights also seem to have recently almost, if not completely, vanished from DL availability, while still available via AF/KL FB. And so on... these are all specifics, nothing saying that everything is gone, but just examples of the ever tightening screws on award availability, both by DL and other airlines (and no, it's not exclusive to SkyTeam; over at *A it's equally bad with CA total blockage esp. at the moment and existing CA award tickets not being honored by them, while at OW JL has always had horrendous availability and if you don't book the flights you want at 330 days out within a few seconds - or minutes, if you're lucky to have that much time - of when they are released, you're unlike to get another chance). No one is saying (other than you, that is) that all is gone, just that availability is getting consistently, week by week and month by month, tighter and tighter, while at the same time DL keeps jacking up the normal award levels without regard for the market prices (e.g. 95K new normal O pricing DL HNL-SW Pacific is ridiculous, esp. compared to the fact that on *A the same is 35K one-way and allows two stopovers and open jaws on a 70K round trip). There are no absolutes, just some 50 shades of grey here, all of which show the ever tightening availability, while for what little remains (more on some routes and less on others, very true) gets priced higher and higher.

gooselee

You clearly have more time to fume over this than I do, and are completely missing my point. And others can read back upthread to decide for themselves what was or wasn't said or imolies by either of us (or others).

Also, I'm picking just a few very specific routes?? How is restricting your search just to ex-HNL routes not doing the exact same thing?

Again, all I'm saying is that availability is still pretty good on many routes and dates, even when looking just at DL metal in J. That's it.

This whole thread and wiki exist because people have been able find flights with low inventory to/from various destinations, and were thus able to deduct the new floor for DL awards. People following up to that by saying that the flights THEY want on the metal THEY want and the dates THEY want comes across as a child stomping their feet because they got the wrong flavor of birthday cake.

RealHJ

Not fume, it's just that yes, it is a hobby of mine to keep abreast of the value/availability of my miles holdings (DL, UA, AA, JL, LH, etc.), using several automated or semi-automated tools and systems that I've created, so that I will be first (way ahead of the bloggers, who get it wrong half the time anyway) to know of any new developments, good or bad, availability, restrictions, pricing, etc. wise. I just keep most of that to myself (and unlike others, I have still recently gotten some very good value out of DL awards, well over 10cpm, in fact - so there can be still real value, it's just very hard to attain and is beyond the reach of the 99% who don't gather, think creatively and analyze the data available; for example, first rule of thumb is: if you are going to Australia, don't book the actual award flight to there - but it applies mostly so from HI, not quite so from US49).

It just annoys me when misinformed people who know little about the subject that they are talking about make wide sweeping general statements, without bothering to actually learn and analyze the facts and trends. That's all. No offense intended. (And yes, I do spend too much time keeping abreast of the mileage values...but as it's largely automated, it's really not that bad, only may be 1-2 hours per week combined of actual time combing through and analyzing the data and seeing the patterns. By my counts, that's perfectly a-OK for such a small sideline hobby.)

It does, of course. And that is the perspective that I always made it crystal clear that I was coming from, which you seem to (purposefully?) keep missing. As the data I look at is solely for my use, it is, obviously, focused on flights/routes that matter to me. The same is true of everyone here, really: everyone has their own perspective, based on their home base and routes (and sometimes also dates, for those who aren't flexible) of interest. Out of east coast to Asia, for example, I've noticed surprisingly good availability using DL SM recently. But, that is not my focus. But, it just shows how much things can vary based on the O&D.

But the wiki was largely incomplete, until I went in to complete it earlier with the several missed sector price hikes.

Instead of picking on the FT contributors (such as me) who actually take the time to share their knowledge and update the wiki, don't go making wide sweeping general statements that you cannot support by facts - as you haven't bothered to take the time/put in the effort to learn the facts and look up the data and analyze the trends.

ebzed

Tried to go back and search in the old thread, didnt found (or didnt searched hard enough...)

I was quite happy from the Award Tickets in Delta, Many times i could simply find ones for international (TLV-FLL-TLV) for 80k Miles, Now i am searching
I almost passed every single possible date looks all goes to 150 or 170k
(if you choose a delta partner, it would be around 130k).

Anything changed on 2016 that i missed?
(or i was simply lucky so far, and its ended)

xliioper

They are called "Award" tickets, not "Bonus" tickets. You will have better luck searching to an international gateway city like MIA. Using the 5 week calendar view, I see pretty good low level coach availability in the fall (Sep - Nov) for 1 week trips to MIA. Note that the price actually goes down on Oct 1 from 80K roundtrip to 70K roundtrip. FLL also shows decent 70K availability starting later in October through November (it appears you didn't search quite far enough out). Yes, these are mostly on partner metal flights. AF/KL/SU have high surcharges on award tickets originating outside the US. If you can find AZ metal flights, it's pretty reasonable (around $100 roundtrip).

NoStressHere

Delta, like most airlines offers awards at various level. Low, Mid, High, etc.

It appears there are none of the low level awards left on your flights, so it is showing the higher. Even possible there were never any low level on your flights.

Did they "raise" the rates? Maybe, maybe not. All the airlines can play funny games by offering the lower rates in their program, but not offering them for "sale". So, in that case, they did raise the rates.

ebzed

Sorry, Bad habits from flying EL-AL for 17 years,
They called them Bonus tickets, they charged Taxes & Fuel surcharge on them
So you would take a Bonus Ticket and add 450$ on top of it 8-)

I was actually searching before June, Where the change was not yet made,
Anyway, I see all airlines are the same, Will manage with what we have.
Thanks!

Boraxo

Exactly. The jokes on us. You should treat the wiki as "guidance" because nothing is guaranteed with SkyMiles.

vincewy

I forgot to mention that TPAC Business Saver (O), availability varies greatly depending on city pairs and they are all from either CI, KE, MU, CZ, KL, and AM.

To/from HKG/SIN, brutal, almost nonexistent, consider getting award from TPE which almost always has 1-3 seats to JFK every day from CI, if you check 331 days ahead. So RealHJ may be correct that he/she doesn't find any because he/she is trying to redeem award from cities with many business and premium travelers where airlines find no incentives to hand out awards or he/she is only looking for DL award, which is even more scarce, if it ever exists.

I don't value all Business Saver awards equally. IST - KUL for 70000/80000 miles is worthless (well, actually not worthless but worst use of your miles) since you can purchase SV ow J for around $720, not to mention miles it will accrue, I believe it's almost 10000 while HKG - JFK (if you can find any) for 70000/80000 is worth much more since the revenue ticket rt is at least $5000.