Delta to add MSP?FCO and DTW/MUC for summer
 

A little birdie told me to check the schedules today for these, and sure enough they are in there. Both look like they start on May 26, 2016.

MSP-FCO will be on a 76Z

DTW-MUC will be on a 76D

Lots of new transatlantic flights next year. CDG-RDU, JFK-EDI, LHR-SLC and now these two. There are also extra JFK-TLV and JFK-KEF flights

The MSP-FCO route was almost launched this summer, according to comments made at a MAC commission meeting this past winter. They didn't say the destination, just that Delta had agreed to launch an additional trans-Atlantic route, but requested a delay of one summer so it could have more time for marketing a promotion.

It was pretty obvious, however, that it was either FCO or FRA. FCO is a great jumping off point for southern Europe. While I'd still love to see a flight to PVG from MSP, I'm thrilled to add FCO to the roster. Summer seasonal, I assume, just like DTW.

IMO FCO is an odd choice for MSP. It's not a big O&D market and future partner status with AZ might become an issue as AZ gets closer to the ME3, which are not connections that DL would want to encourage for its passengers.

Personally if I were going to any place not within easy train or driving distance of FCO, this is one of the last European airports I would voluntarily choose for onward connections. It's a big mess, even without fire damage to a terminal. Moreover domestic AZ flights are coach only while DL upgrade instruments cannot be used for AZ connections through FCO (versus KLM connections through AMS).

In the summer, I would wager to guess Rome is one of the Top 3 destinations in Europe.

Not only that, but a fair amount of cruise traffic as well.

No PDX-CDG??

DL needs more own-metal TATL flying to meet the share percentages specified in the pilots' contract - unless DL can get AZ/KL/AF to make unilateral cuts. Riigghht. ;) So, with the obvious city pairs mostly covered it's up to DL to try some of the less obvious. FCO from any DL hub can be filled 4-5 days a week from ~Easter to the end of cruise season, and daily over U.S. K-12 school break. Yields don't need to be great - pilots need to be contented.

Not sure of Rome's exact placement among cities, but most rankings of foreign destinations for US travelers have Italy as the third most popular destination in Europe, after the UK and France. Given that both are served ex-MSP, Italy is the obvious next choice.

Italy is incredibly popular with American tourists and this route is simply reflective of that. All this talk about connections is missing the forest for the trees.

As of 2011, FCO was the third largest international destination not served by Delta, behind FRA and PVG. I haven't seen more recent data, but FCO and PVG were climbing, while FRA was sinking. With a SkyTeam hub in FCO, I wouldn't be at all surprised if FCO is higher yielding than FRA. As for PVG, I doubt Delta has the available equipment for that route. And it's still bolstering LAX-PVG as well.

Are these seasonal or all year? If the latter I think it will be very hard as both MSP and DTW have less than 400 daily flights. FCO may work better due to the Alitalia hub. I don't see DTW-MUC sticking around.

No, not yet. Give it a chance.

This is fantastic, as I fly on biz to Italy all the time. I only wish the flight was better timed to make the morning bank of connections at FCO. With AF cutting CDG-VRN, I was looking at moving these flights to LH/UA, but will again have one-stop service.

If they added PDX-CDG, I would hope they would do it at a different time than the crappy timing for SEA-CDG.

I frequently fly CDG-SEA. But rarely take the nonstop on the return. For the return, I prefer SEA-AMS-CDG (with the 6pm departure in the Summer when there are 2x daily AMS) or SEA-LHR-CDG (in the winter with the 7pm departure, because the only AMS departure is early afternoon).

SEA-CDG departs too early to get much work done in Seattle that day. I'm unable to sleep on the flight and show up in Paris early in the morning, exhausted and unable to think coherently.

The late afternoon departures (6pm to AMS, 7pm to LHR) allow me to get almost a full day of work in SEA, sleep on the flight and get in to Paris at a reasonable time - run a couple errands, go home, have dinner, go to bed and be ready to face the world the next day.

7PM PDX-CDG would work nicely for me. Take a 5pm SEA-PDX then connect to a 7pm PDX-CDG, getting into CDG at 2pm the next day.

Great! One less destination I need ATL for!

It's official


http://www.wset.com/story/30187030/d...apolis-st-paul


http://www.freep.com/story/travel/20...ghts/73372322/

Nice add for DL and the Midwest especially to FCO. One more option for not having to take AZ!

DTW-MUC... Sounds like a flight made for Bosch/Auto industry. Just like SFO-ZUR is the pharma express.

Yep, but MSP-FCO is what? Tour groups to see the Pope and eat pasta? This doesn't seem like it would be a high yield route as there aren't a lot of obvious customers for business travel.

I think it will last longer than DTW-MUC. At least with MSP-FCO there is a Skyteam hub at both ends.

Not sure what makes you so skeptical of DTW-MUC. The auto market is HUGE. Germany is by far Michigan's largest EU trade partner. I expect the premium cabin to make this flight profitable.

That said, it could also be a preemptive move to discourage LH from adding the route.

There's no business market in FCO. There is a high-end leisure market, but no doubt this route is being added for volume between the central/upper states and Italy for tourist traffic. I expect the route will be seasonal.

NWA couldn't even fill a 757 to DUS. And the DTW hub was larger then. As someone else mentioned, this is just a shot in the dark to keep the pilot contract compliant with the joint venture with EU partners.

The auto market isn't in DUS. Plus, NWA had nowhere near the market share that SkyTeam has now over the Atlantic. The market dynamics when NWA added DUS and BRU for one summer were completely different. Apples and oranges. :confused:

You also have to consider DL's marketing strategy, which has been discussed here in detail, but in short relies on its corporate contracts to win big chunks of business rather than going after the masses. I wouldn't be surprised at all of this new route was part of commercial account negotiations.

DUS isn't MUC. Not only does MUC have more than twice as many people than DUS, the auto industry is largely in the south. Sure, Ford is on CGN, but Bosch, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, MAN, and every major automotive supplier have large operations in southern Germany.
Additionally US tourism to Germany is centered in Berlin and Munich [make a triangle between Dachau, Berchtesgaden, and Neuschwanstein].

It may not be a huge business market but it is a popular destination in the summer. Plus maybe DL is testing some routes for life after AZ leaves Skyteam and becomes a full time feeder slave to EY

Not that AZ will be a big loss but there will probably need to be some additional lift to Italy on DL metal.

I miss ATL-CPH/ARN. :(

They could at least add a seasonal JFK-OSL...

I see great award space on DTW-MUC with 9 seats available in J on weekdays next Summer, but I see terrible reviews of the 767 D1 seat. Is it really that bad? I just want to get some decent rest so I don't start vacation exhausted.

Of all the DL wide body aircraft, I find the 767 D1 seat much worse than the others. It's a genuine flat bed, but the others feel more like private suites but without doors.

Capacity explosion. I also know that *A is planning to dump extra capacity on TATL routes.
Does this mean fares will come down big?

That would be nice.

Still, I expect DL to cherry-pick the high yield business routes rather than add leisure routes, although the seasonal NCE nonstop is primarily leisure and is very high yield.

Oh really? Have a look at JFK-NCE in J, 11/25-11/30. You tell me how high yield it is.

That's Thanksgiving, not typically a high demand international time.

Look at 12/2 - 12/7 for a radically different price pont.

~$3,500 vs ~$6,800

Could you be seeing Thanksgiving sale prices?

Plus, it's low season around Nice with many hotels closed for the season. Summertime is the exception to leisure routes, and even arguably a beach route here, not being high yield.

It's Thanksgiving alright, but $3,750 is not a "sale" in my book.

Compared to the usual price on this route, this is a sale.

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

Sure is.
I have bridge to sell you. Special price for you: $1M. It is a sale from the original $1B you know...

:rolleyes:

Seriously, I suspect it's a Z fare where Z inventory is rarely available on this route.

Yes it is.
The Z fare might be "sale" as in "less than what it was before", but that does not make it a "sale" as in "a bargain basement/fantastic airfare".

Well if pricing during 11/25-11/30 is an indication of yields, forget JFK-NCE. Obviously they are getting killed on JFK-CDG and need to drop the route immediately. :rolleyes:

Any chance to see a direct SEA to FCO service in S17?

Does anyone know how is performing new launched MSP route to Italy?
I have just come to know that they are extending the route by 1 month (01OCT16 instead of 01SEP16).
In addition, they also have flown the larger 764 iso 763 (which was the aircraft originally planned)

It's always possible, but IMO doubtful. AMS/CDG at least can also feed JV partners AF/KLM and vice-versa. While AZ is a JV member with DL, they basically go nowhere that AF/KLM doesn't except in Italy. AF/KLM fly tons of places worldwide that AZ doesn't. AZ is really a small airline in terms of worldwide destinations on their own metal.

Not to mention that with the purchase of AZ by EY, AZ is not long for SkyTeam, and will probably end up litle more than a "feeder slave" when the contract expires...not that they're worth all that much to begin with.