Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles
Reload this Page >

Delta to add MSP?FCO and DTW/MUC for summer

Delta to add MSP?FCO and DTW/MUC for summer

Old Oct 6, 15, 11:26 am
  #31  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 88,385
Originally Posted by Dieuwer View Post
Oh really? Have a look at JFK-NCE in J, 11/25-11/30. You tell me how high yield it is.
Could you be seeing Thanksgiving sale prices?

Plus, it's low season around Nice with many hotels closed for the season. Summertime is the exception to leisure routes, and even arguably a beach route here, not being high yield.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Old Oct 6, 15, 11:32 am
  #32  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS
Posts: 14,510
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Could you be seeing Thanksgiving sale prices?

Plus, it's low season around Nice with many hotels closed for the season. Summertime is the exception to leisure routes, and even arguably a beach route here, not being high yield.
It's Thanksgiving alright, but $3,750 is not a "sale" in my book.
Dieuwer is offline  
Old Oct 6, 15, 11:37 am
  #33  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 88,385
Originally Posted by Dieuwer View Post
It's Thanksgiving alright, but $3,750 is not a "sale" in my book.
Compared to the usual price on this route, this is a sale.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Old Oct 6, 15, 12:24 pm
  #34  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS
Posts: 14,510
Originally Posted by mspeconomist View Post
compared to the usual price on this route, this is a sale.


Originally Posted by CLOWN
Compared to the usual price of $20K, $10K is a sale...


Sure is.
I have bridge to sell you. Special price for you: $1M. It is a sale from the original $1B you know...

Dieuwer is offline  
Old Oct 6, 15, 12:57 pm
  #35  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 88,385
Seriously, I suspect it's a Z fare where Z inventory is rarely available on this route.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Old Oct 6, 15, 1:05 pm
  #36  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS
Posts: 14,510
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Seriously, I suspect it's a Z fare where Z inventory is rarely available on this route.
Yes it is.
The Z fare might be "sale" as in "less than what it was before", but that does not make it a "sale" as in "a bargain basement/fantastic airfare".
Dieuwer is offline  
Old Oct 6, 15, 1:10 pm
  #37  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: SEA once more (previously CDG and NRT)
Programs: Former DL DM and UA 1k, now a free agent
Posts: 2,246
Well if pricing during 11/25-11/30 is an indication of yields, forget JFK-NCE. Obviously they are getting killed on JFK-CDG and need to drop the route immediately.
SEA-Flyer is offline  
Old Sep 12, 16, 1:46 pm
  #38  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 268
Any chance to see a direct SEA to FCO service in S17?

Does anyone know how is performing new launched MSP route to Italy?
I have just come to know that they are extending the route by 1 month (01OCT16 instead of 01SEP16).
In addition, they also have flown the larger 764 iso 763 (which was the aircraft originally planned)
Mirko is offline  
Old Sep 12, 16, 2:09 pm
  #39  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Hilton Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 17,885
Originally Posted by Mirko View Post
Any chance to see a direct SEA to FCO service in S17?

Does anyone know how is performing new launched MSP route to Italy?
I have just come to know that they are extending the route by 1 month (01OCT16 instead of 01SEP16).
In addition, they also have flown the larger 764 iso 763 (which was the aircraft originally planned)
It's always possible, but IMO doubtful. AMS/CDG at least can also feed JV partners AF/KLM and vice-versa. While AZ is a JV member with DL, they basically go nowhere that AF/KLM doesn't except in Italy. AF/KLM fly tons of places worldwide that AZ doesn't. AZ is really a small airline in terms of worldwide destinations on their own metal.
flyerCO is offline  
Old Sep 12, 16, 2:23 pm
  #40  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,326
Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
It's always possible, but IMO doubtful. AMS/CDG at least can also feed JV partners AF/KLM and vice-versa. While AZ is a JV member with DL, they basically go nowhere that AF/KLM doesn't except in Italy. AF/KLM fly tons of places worldwide that AZ doesn't. AZ is really a small airline in terms of worldwide destinations on their own metal.
Not to mention that with the purchase of AZ by EY, AZ is not long for SkyTeam, and will probably end up litle more than a "feeder slave" when the contract expires...not that they're worth all that much to begin with.
kop84 is offline  
Old Sep 12, 16, 4:29 pm
  #41  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SEA
Posts: 119
Originally Posted by Mirko View Post
Any chance to see a direct SEA to FCO service in S17?
Nope, I don't see it happening... There are a couple routes from SEA that would likely take precedence.

Slightly off topic, but I'd be curious about a SEA-DUB service. I know a bunch of folks in Seattle that frequently travel between the two due to family and add in folks from the tech industry (Microsoft and Amazon) which are both based in Seattle and have sizeable operations in Dublin. Not to mention myself that doesn't fit into either category but still manage to make it over there a couple times a year.
AgentCooper is offline  
Old Sep 13, 16, 12:22 pm
  #42  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 268
Well I mentioned Seattle just in case DL wanted to strengthen even further its summer capacity to Rome, which is such a big market during the high season from USA & Canada.
It jsut seems to me the most logical addition considering they already serve JFK (333), ATL (333 + 764), DTW (333), MSP (764).
Not to mention BOS/LAX/YYZ/MIA/JFK/ORD covered by JV's partner (Alitalia).
Mirko is offline  
Old Sep 13, 16, 2:24 pm
  #43  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: SEA once more (previously CDG and NRT)
Programs: Former DL DM and UA 1k, now a free agent
Posts: 2,246
As much as I'd love to see more service between Seattle and Europe, I don't think it'll happen. Very unlikely for any additional destinations in Europe from Seattle due to problems with connecting traffic.

On the US side, SEA is not a logical connection point for vast majority of passengers.

On the European side, look at the Skyteam hubs:

AMS and CDG - already served from SEA, lots of connection opportunities. CDG drops to 5x a week during the winter.
FCO - Most logical choice if they had to add one, but doesn't open up a lot of connection opportunities that aren't already well serviced via CDG or AMS. For most of Europe heading to Seattle, connecting in CDG or AMS makes more sense than FCO
MAD - Not going to happen. Same problem as FCO with regards to connections. You'd see DL service to DTW or MSP first (and I don't anticipate them adding it)
PRG - No times a million. DL only has seasonal service from JFK.
OTP - No times a billion. No DL service currently.

For any other Seattle-Europe routes, DL would be entirely dependent on local traffic. LHR is workable, but even that is tough with the competition from BA who has the advantage of carrying both local + connecting traffic. What other markets would be big enough?

FRA? Not a chance competing against LH on this route. Would be more practical to light piles of cash on fire.

DUB? Sure, Amazon and Microsoft would put some people on the route. But even then, that is maybe 50 business travelers (some in economy, some in business) roundtrip per week on that city pair. Even if you didn't do daily service, only running it 5x a week, you'd still need to find a way to sell another 1500 seats a week to make it viable. Not going to happen.
SEA-Flyer is offline  
Old Sep 13, 16, 2:50 pm
  #44  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,326
Originally Posted by SEA-Flyer View Post
As much as I'd love to see more service between Seattle and Europe, I don't think it'll happen. Very unlikely for any additional destinations in Europe from Seattle due to problems with connecting traffic.

On the US side, SEA is not a logical connection point for vast majority of passengers.

On the European side, look at the Skyteam hubs:

AMS and CDG - already served from SEA, lots of connection opportunities. CDG drops to 5x a week during the winter.
FCO - Most logical choice if they had to add one, but doesn't open up a lot of connection opportunities that aren't already well serviced via CDG or AMS. For most of Europe heading to Seattle, connecting in CDG or AMS makes more sense than FCO
MAD - Not going to happen. Same problem as FCO with regards to connections. You'd see DL service to DTW or MSP first (and I don't anticipate them adding it)
PRG - No times a million. DL only has seasonal service from JFK.
OTP - No times a billion. No DL service currently.

For any other Seattle-Europe routes, DL would be entirely dependent on local traffic. LHR is workable, but even that is tough with the competition from BA who has the advantage of carrying both local + connecting traffic. What other markets would be big enough?

FRA? Not a chance competing against LH on this route. Would be more practical to light piles of cash on fire.

DUB? Sure, Amazon and Microsoft would put some people on the route. But even then, that is maybe 50 business travelers (some in economy, some in business) roundtrip per week on that city pair. Even if you didn't do daily service, only running it 5x a week, you'd still need to find a way to sell another 1500 seats a week to make it viable. Not going to happen.
You make a lot of great points, especially looking at places like DUB. Is a non-stop going to generate new passengers or just caniblize existing offerings via AMS/CDG/JFK? Most likely too much of the latter to justify.
kop84 is offline  
Old Sep 13, 16, 4:37 pm
  #45  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SEA
Posts: 119
Originally Posted by kop84 View Post
You make a lot of great points, especially looking at places like DUB. Is a non-stop going to generate new passengers or just caniblize existing offerings via AMS/CDG/JFK? Most likely too much of the latter to justify.
Not much to cannibalize on the the AMS/CDG/JFK -- at least from my opinion -- but perhaps I'm too particular.

AMS: I used to connect through here all the time on my way to DUB but this no longer seems to be a marketable connection (used to be able to connect with EI which no longer seems to be available for DL bookings). Give me a long haul on A330 and a short haul on a 737 and I'd fly it -- as I've done many times in the past but although the flights exist it's no longer bookable.

CDG: This is the only practical connection for hitting the long-haul flights out of SEA first. But absolutely no thanks for being forced on the Avro RJ85 (City Jet) afterwards. I did it once and unfortunately doing it one more time with an upcoming trip but it won't be done again after that (I'm not a fan of the Avro's nor am I a fan of transiting through CDG).

JFK: No way I'm flying 6+ hours on a 737 to JFK just to connect for another 6+ hour flight (A330/767). Immediately out of the question, especially the time of year of some of my flights -- potential WX nightmare.
AgentCooper is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: