Oct 17, 21, 10:32 am
Last edit by: bgriff
Can I SDC and stay in F/D1 after applying an RUC? Maybe. Most recent data points (please update as information changes):
Via phone / chat agents: Some success, but often requires multiple HUCA and many agents believe the answer is no. Details further down this Wiki about how to guide agents to look in their system if you find a friendly agent, but this information may change.
Via airport agents: Few data points but likely to be the same as phone/chat agents.
Via app SDC function: As of mid 2023, app SDC is altogether broken.
Via web SDC function during check-in: Appears that this may work, with at least one successful data point. Likely the best option right now (as of late 2023). See example of what to look for.
Via same-day standby: No. Upgrade list is cleared before standby list so there would generally be no premium seats left by the time you clear. If normal paid premium cabin SDC rules are followed, standby shouldn't be necessary anyway unless you are trying to get onto a flight that is sold out up front at the time you make the request.
If you need to involve an agent (for example if changing from a nonstop to connecting itinerary or taking advantage of the provision to SDC a first class ticket to any lower cabin with last seat availability), the following information may be useful in guiding the agent to the correct policy:
Via phone / chat agents: Some success, but often requires multiple HUCA and many agents believe the answer is no. Details further down this Wiki about how to guide agents to look in their system if you find a friendly agent, but this information may change.
Via airport agents: Few data points but likely to be the same as phone/chat agents.
Via app SDC function: As of mid 2023, app SDC is altogether broken.
Via web SDC function during check-in: Appears that this may work, with at least one successful data point. Likely the best option right now (as of late 2023). See example of what to look for.
Via same-day standby: No. Upgrade list is cleared before standby list so there would generally be no premium seats left by the time you clear. If normal paid premium cabin SDC rules are followed, standby shouldn't be necessary anyway unless you are trying to get onto a flight that is sold out up front at the time you make the request.
If you need to involve an agent (for example if changing from a nonstop to connecting itinerary or taking advantage of the provision to SDC a first class ticket to any lower cabin with last seat availability), the following information may be useful in guiding the agent to the correct policy:
I ended up speaking to a someone at the Rates and Reissues desk. They confirmed that KM (Knowledge Management) VERY clearly delineates the difference between complimentary upgrades and Mileage/Upgrade Certificate upgrades. It clearly states that comp upgrades use OU or RU inventory and DO NOT require ticket reissue and no compensation has been collected by Delta thus the SDC is only eligible for ticketed economy class. But Mileage/Upgrade Certificates involve an exchange of value and SDC is allowed if ANY inventory in the premium CABIN (not class) is available. It notes that this is indicated by OY, RY, or SY class and is reissued.
He said to have any agent look in KM under:
Same-Day Travel Changes (SDT) page and go to the Same Day Confirmed: Program Details section and then scroll down to the Upgrades heading. There is cleary lists the different rules for SDC on comp upgrade and "Upgrade Certificate or Mileage"
He said the wording is so clear there should be absolutely no issue with SDC on GUC/RUC. He did note that the verbage in KM is Upgrade Certificate not GUC or RUC in that particular area.
He also said that KM clearly states that D1 to FC SDC is allowed (requires manual reissue), but FC to D1 is NOT allowed. He indicated though that since the fare bucket alignment across intl and domestic flights a few years ago, its not immediately apparent to agents the difference between a D1 domestic flight and a FC domestic flight without a few extra clicks and that he sees FC to D1 SDC reissues happen frequently where they shouldnt.
He said to have any agent look in KM under:
Same-Day Travel Changes (SDT) page and go to the Same Day Confirmed: Program Details section and then scroll down to the Upgrades heading. There is cleary lists the different rules for SDC on comp upgrade and "Upgrade Certificate or Mileage"
He said the wording is so clear there should be absolutely no issue with SDC on GUC/RUC. He did note that the verbage in KM is Upgrade Certificate not GUC or RUC in that particular area.
He also said that KM clearly states that D1 to FC SDC is allowed (requires manual reissue), but FC to D1 is NOT allowed. He indicated though that since the fare bucket alignment across intl and domestic flights a few years ago, its not immediately apparent to agents the difference between a D1 domestic flight and a FC domestic flight without a few extra clicks and that he sees FC to D1 SDC reissues happen frequently where they shouldnt.
SDC while using Regional Upgrade Certificates (RUC) Definitive Thread
Jun 7, 22, 1:04 pm
#136
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Has anyone actually had a positive experience doing that? For my part, I can't fathom telling an agent to RTFM... I use some version of "I've done this on the past" or "are you sure? I thought I could do this" and if that doesn't work I HUCA.
The fairly clear thing, though, is that I don't think the app supports last-seat SDC.
The fairly clear thing, though, is that I don't think the app supports last-seat SDC.
Jun 7, 22, 2:42 pm
#137
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... I mean it seems roughly on par with the United GG codes? Dunno if that's still a thing. Just that in this case there isn't a handy short keyword.
Jun 8, 22, 5:04 am
#138
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Has anyone actually had a positive experience doing that? For my part, I can't fathom telling an agent to RTFM... I use some version of "I've done this on the past" or "are you sure? I thought I could do this" and if that doesn't work I HUCA.
The fairly clear thing, though, is that I don't think the app supports last-seat SDC.
The fairly clear thing, though, is that I don't think the app supports last-seat SDC.
Jun 8, 22, 6:08 am
#139
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,053
On the other hand, it would not at all surprise me to find that this doesn't work for a lot of people who post in this forum, because of issues you alluded to.
Jun 8, 22, 10:03 am
#140
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Jun 14, 22, 1:18 pm
#141
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Reporting a data point (or two, technically):
I was ticketed DCA-LAX-SFO yesterday, cleared an RUC and reissued already in advance, but due to last-minute logistical issues I needed to leave from IAD instead. Would like to have done this through the app, but it bombed out even looking for any options with some technical error.
Phone agent #1: you have to SDC based on the cabin you paid for.
Me: my understanding is [yada yada yada] and tried steering them to KM but they didn't seem interested.
Decided not to press it and just HUCA. In the meantime I reviewed the wiki and noted that "D1 to FC SDC is allowed (requires manual reissue)" and I'm betting co-terminal creates issues too. So with phone agent #2 I led with that:
Phone agent 2: [looks up the flights involved] ok it is available, but you're correct that it will need to be reissued manually, let me add some notes to the record to document what you're requesting and then I'll send you over to ticketing support
GTS agent: no, you have to SDC based on the cabin you paid for
Me: it is my understanding that... [yada yada yada] and again tried steering gently towards KM
GTS agent: well, I've been here for 24 years and that would be new to me, although sometimes you guys know better than we do [but did not seem interested in looking at KM either]
GTS agent eventually said that it wouldn't be a problem because the new flights I wanted both had certificate upgrade space available (which I had seen from a test booking on the website before calling) and went ahead and processed it. Although this still makes no sense because there definitely was NOT any inventory in my original coach bucket, but since they were giving me what I wanted, I didn't argue...
Other tidbit: at some point while waiting for the computer to do its thing, GTS agent conversationally asked about the original agent I spoke with, and mentioned that they are supposed to wait on the line with you and/or handle that side of the conversation themselves, not just cold transfer the customer to GTS. /shrug the cold transfer has happened to me several times this year so I didn't think much of it when it happened. I don't even particularly mind, as it allows me to communicate directly with GTS instead of literally playing "telephone" to relay info back and forth.
I was ticketed DCA-LAX-SFO yesterday, cleared an RUC and reissued already in advance, but due to last-minute logistical issues I needed to leave from IAD instead. Would like to have done this through the app, but it bombed out even looking for any options with some technical error.
Phone agent #1: you have to SDC based on the cabin you paid for.
Me: my understanding is [yada yada yada] and tried steering them to KM but they didn't seem interested.
Decided not to press it and just HUCA. In the meantime I reviewed the wiki and noted that "D1 to FC SDC is allowed (requires manual reissue)" and I'm betting co-terminal creates issues too. So with phone agent #2 I led with that:
Phone agent 2: [looks up the flights involved] ok it is available, but you're correct that it will need to be reissued manually, let me add some notes to the record to document what you're requesting and then I'll send you over to ticketing support
GTS agent: no, you have to SDC based on the cabin you paid for
Me: it is my understanding that... [yada yada yada] and again tried steering gently towards KM
GTS agent: well, I've been here for 24 years and that would be new to me, although sometimes you guys know better than we do [but did not seem interested in looking at KM either]
GTS agent eventually said that it wouldn't be a problem because the new flights I wanted both had certificate upgrade space available (which I had seen from a test booking on the website before calling) and went ahead and processed it. Although this still makes no sense because there definitely was NOT any inventory in my original coach bucket, but since they were giving me what I wanted, I didn't argue...
Other tidbit: at some point while waiting for the computer to do its thing, GTS agent conversationally asked about the original agent I spoke with, and mentioned that they are supposed to wait on the line with you and/or handle that side of the conversation themselves, not just cold transfer the customer to GTS. /shrug the cold transfer has happened to me several times this year so I didn't think much of it when it happened. I don't even particularly mind, as it allows me to communicate directly with GTS instead of literally playing "telephone" to relay info back and forth.
Jul 1, 22, 9:08 pm
#142
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More app data: the app has been very consistent in only offering options which are both (a) within 24 hours of now, and (b) have OL space currently available.
Not trying to actually make an SDC today, so I won't be calling.
Not trying to actually make an SDC today, so I won't be calling.
Aug 17, 22, 9:17 pm
#143
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Some more new datapoints. JFK-SFO tomorrow. RUC cleared back in Jan/Feb. Wanted to be on an earlier flight (weirdly 23 D1 open seats in this flight but only GUC available).
I'm calling a fourth time right now, and Agent #1, #2 and #3 insisted that I need RUC upgradable space to be confirmed on that earlier flight. And each of them said they called their support desk to make sure what they said was correct.
Has something really changed in the past few months?
I'm calling a fourth time right now, and Agent #1, #2 and #3 insisted that I need RUC upgradable space to be confirmed on that earlier flight. And each of them said they called their support desk to make sure what they said was correct.
Has something really changed in the past few months?
Aug 17, 22, 9:21 pm
#144
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Some more new datapoints. JFK-SFO tomorrow. RUC cleared back in Jan/Feb. Wanted to be on an earlier flight (weirdly 23 D1 open seats in this flight but only GUC available).
I'm calling a fourth time right now, and Agent #1, #2 and #3 insisted that I need RUC upgradable space to be confirmed on that earlier flight. And each of them said they called their support desk to make sure what they said was correct.
Has something really changed in the past few months?
I'm calling a fourth time right now, and Agent #1, #2 and #3 insisted that I need RUC upgradable space to be confirmed on that earlier flight. And each of them said they called their support desk to make sure what they said was correct.
Has something really changed in the past few months?
You said "cleared." Was the ticket REISSUED? I've found that if its not REISSUED/RETICKETED, they still see original paid fare class. If it has been REISSUED/RETICKETED, I've had better luck.
If it only cleared but not reissued, they are going to only see that there isn't OX available.
Regardless, so long as it is SDC, you should be able to do this - I did this very same route back in July.
Aug 17, 22, 9:28 pm
#145
Join Date: Jan 2018
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You said "cleared." Was the ticket REISSUED? I've found that if its not REISSUED/RETICKETED, they still see original paid fare class. If it has been REISSUED/RETICKETED, I've had better luck.
If it only cleared but not reissued, they are going to only see that there isn't OX available.
Regardless, so long as it is SDC, you should be able to do this - I did this very same route back in July.
If it only cleared but not reissued, they are going to only see that there isn't OX available.
Regardless, so long as it is SDC, you should be able to do this - I did this very same route back in July.
The fourth try is another failure. I give up.
Oct 3, 22, 12:36 pm
#146
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Just another data point ... JFK-SFO on cleared and reticketed RUC. App is only offering standby on the two other remaining flights today, both of which have D1 for sale but no RUC availability (one has GUC-only confirmable availability).
Interestingly, per someone's note on this or another thread that the web check-in SDC function may be behaving better these days, I also tried the change flights function while checking in on Delta.com, and it did show "Confirmed" for both of the other flight options, but I can't see anywhere that it makes clear whether it is offering me confirmed D1, and I don't actually want to change, so I didn't try it. (I clicked to the second page of the flight change function, not sure how many more clicks I could go before I would be committed.)
Interestingly, per someone's note on this or another thread that the web check-in SDC function may be behaving better these days, I also tried the change flights function while checking in on Delta.com, and it did show "Confirmed" for both of the other flight options, but I can't see anywhere that it makes clear whether it is offering me confirmed D1, and I don't actually want to change, so I didn't try it. (I clicked to the second page of the flight change function, not sure how many more clicks I could go before I would be committed.)
Oct 3, 22, 12:57 pm
#147
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Just another data point ... JFK-SFO on cleared and reticketed RUC. App is only offering standby on the two other remaining flights today, both of which have D1 for sale but no RUC availability (one has GUC-only confirmable availability).
Interestingly, per someone's note on this or another thread that the web check-in SDC function may be behaving better these days, I also tried the change flights function while checking in on Delta.com, and it did show "Confirmed" for both of the other flight options, but I can't see anywhere that it makes clear whether it is offering me confirmed D1, and I don't actually want to change, so I didn't try it. (I clicked to the second page of the flight change function, not sure how many more clicks I could go before I would be committed.)
Interestingly, per someone's note on this or another thread that the web check-in SDC function may be behaving better these days, I also tried the change flights function while checking in on Delta.com, and it did show "Confirmed" for both of the other flight options, but I can't see anywhere that it makes clear whether it is offering me confirmed D1, and I don't actually want to change, so I didn't try it. (I clicked to the second page of the flight change function, not sure how many more clicks I could go before I would be committed.)
The app has been forcing same fare class for last few weeks. I've had to use web or call in.
Oct 7, 22, 1:29 pm
#148
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Related data point: was flying SFO-JFK with cleared & reticketed RUC. Flight delayed, the "find alternative flights" feature in the app offered all Delta One (and, on connecting itineraries, First) options, clearly labeled as such. Ended up rebooking to another flight and was indeed rebooked in D1, to the last seat in this case.
(Unlike how SDC was working at one point, I did keep my original upgrade booking class with the new flight ... the app SDC, when it was working, had seemed to sometimes rebook in whatever fare class was currently available, with corresponding potential MQM benefits.)
(Unlike how SDC was working at one point, I did keep my original upgrade booking class with the new flight ... the app SDC, when it was working, had seemed to sometimes rebook in whatever fare class was currently available, with corresponding potential MQM benefits.)
Oct 22, 22, 4:35 pm
#149
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Another data point: Flying tonight JFK - SFO *cleared and reticketed* D1 using RUC. At check-in on the app I requested a SDC to one flight earlier and was placed on stand-by. I went to the SC at JFK more than three hours ahead of my *ticketed* flight to SFO, explained my situation and was let in. The SC agent told me there were two DM's in front of me (I am PM) and that there were 7 open seats in D1 so chances looked good. At the gate, there were 7 upgrades, and I did not clear. I asked the GA and was told that they had never seen D1 Stand By but could offer me C+. I declined.
I'm not entirely sure what happened here but definitely a caution to anyone using an RUC trying to SDC these days.
I'm not entirely sure what happened here but definitely a caution to anyone using an RUC trying to SDC these days.
Oct 22, 22, 4:52 pm
#150
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,053
Another data point: Flying tonight JFK - SFO *cleared and reticketed* D1 using RUC. At check-in on the app I requested a SDC to one flight earlier and was placed on stand-by. I went to the SC at JFK more than three hours ahead of my *ticketed* flight to SFO, explained my situation and was let in. The SC agent told me there were two DM's in front of me (I am PM) and that there were 7 open seats in D1 so chances looked good. At the gate, there were 7 upgrades, and I did not clear. I asked the GA and was told that they had never seen D1 Stand By but could offer me C+. I declined.
I'm not entirely sure what happened here but definitely a caution to anyone using an RUC trying to SDC these days.
I'm not entirely sure what happened here but definitely a caution to anyone using an RUC trying to SDC these days.
