Breach of Confidentiality by Delta?
Sep 2, 2015, 7:10 pm
#31
Join Date: Oct 2008
Programs: DL Plat, HH Diamond, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 301
The travel department was uninvolved with the second ticket altogether until Delta contacted them and divulged the details of it.
Sep 2, 2015, 7:34 pm
#32
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 87
The most Delta should have done is let your client know that there are conflicting itineraries for this passenger and your client should check with you. What they did was probably wrong and I hope they can be held responsible if your client decides to let you go.
Sep 2, 2015, 8:13 pm
#33
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tokyo
Programs: DL Diamond, ANA Platinum
Posts: 1,532
I don't buy the argument that DL had a good reason to contact the buyer of the second ticket, and especially do not see any justification in divulging explicit details of the first in this particular case.
There are many reasonable and acceptable situations in which conflicting bookings will exist. This has become reality partly due to the evolution of air travel policies over the decades as dictated by the airlines themselves. Restrictive fares might make canceling the reservation a moot point; perhaps there are two possible outcomes to a travel plan and with price fluctuations so common and seats filling up quickly, securing both at the same time is the safest course of action. Or, refundable fares mean canceling or rebooking anytime. Or, perhaps the pax is just too busy to deal with the situation at the present moment. Or perhaps it's an honest mistake.
There is, in my eyes, zero practical justification for what Delta did.
There are many reasonable and acceptable situations in which conflicting bookings will exist. This has become reality partly due to the evolution of air travel policies over the decades as dictated by the airlines themselves. Restrictive fares might make canceling the reservation a moot point; perhaps there are two possible outcomes to a travel plan and with price fluctuations so common and seats filling up quickly, securing both at the same time is the safest course of action. Or, refundable fares mean canceling or rebooking anytime. Or, perhaps the pax is just too busy to deal with the situation at the present moment. Or perhaps it's an honest mistake.
There is, in my eyes, zero practical justification for what Delta did.
Sep 2, 2015, 9:19 pm
#34
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: DL 4MM; DM
Posts: 1,397
I've had two full fare tickets that conflict a few times when I wasn't sure what my schedule would be. I've not been contacted by DL. Nor have the tickets been canceled. Which according to some here on FT, is what happens when you have multiple bookings that conflict. Maybe I have just been lucky. Or maybe recently DL invested their IT dollars in searching out bookings like this, rather than improving the quality of use of the website for their customers.
Sep 2, 2015, 10:09 pm
#35
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, DL DM since inception, 3+ MM, HH Gold, SPG-Gold
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Posts: 1,838
Ahhh - the warm welcome back on FT as expressed in the first responses, how heartwarming! How I missed it!! 
Let me clarify a few things:
It is a financial decision for people like me to decide whether to play according to big corporations rules (i.e. all travel HAVE to go through our travel department) or lose the account. I an not that big a fish, and there are competitors in my field as well, so when I accept such a consultation, I have to make the reservation through their travel department, and I make a calculated decision to do so.
If I have had a clue that Delta would reveal to a third party details of reservations I myself have made on my own CC, I of course would not have done it this way - and either made it without a Skymiles number or on another airline. I also have had two simultaneous tickets in play before, never heard anything from Delta, and even lost one of the two hen non-reimbursable, which brings me to the next point:
I can for the life of me not see how a double booking, especially if involving a non-refundable ticket, can be seen as fraud by Delta (or anyone) as Delta will make money AND have an empty seat - Ca-ching!! - where is the fraud? they got their money without giving back anything including miles, and even if they suspected fraud, should they not go to their 20+ year continuous top tier SM member who they know who is, and where he lives (and has lived for all those years) with phone number CC number etc, rather than contacting a third party through which a bogus reservation may have been made? And why reveal details unrelated to the perceived conflict? I went through the legal document defining fraudulent bookings on the DL website, and booking two overlapping tickets with none of the gains considered fraudulent ARE NOT AMONG the otherwise explicit list - so those who believe Delta has all the rights to go behind my back and reveal my travel pattern to a third party to bust perceived fraud are way off IMHO
After the initial Post I did reach out to my contact in company-1 and I think I got things smoothed out - so hopefully no harm, at least financially, she also was amazed Delta contacted them without contacting me, and said it could only have happened through cross referencing my SM number - and she declined my offer to refund the cost of them canceling the ticket if I ended up not going there. So it looks like I dodged this bullet
I read through the COC and the legal documents on the net and on Delta's website says nothing about me giving up my privacy rights for having a double booking clearly not made to meet the criteria for fraudulent bookings, and I still want to complain - I was actually looking for input as to where is the most appropriate place to send this particular complaint -
So those who think I got what I had coming: I hope you are as understanding when companies reveal YOUR personal info to third parties you do not want to know this info - because frankly, I still do not see the difference with what Delta did to me here - I still believe that somebody at Delta needs to fix it before a bigger fish than me gets really ticked off, and sue the socks off them!
Let me clarify a few things:
It is a financial decision for people like me to decide whether to play according to big corporations rules (i.e. all travel HAVE to go through our travel department) or lose the account. I an not that big a fish, and there are competitors in my field as well, so when I accept such a consultation, I have to make the reservation through their travel department, and I make a calculated decision to do so.
If I have had a clue that Delta would reveal to a third party details of reservations I myself have made on my own CC, I of course would not have done it this way - and either made it without a Skymiles number or on another airline. I also have had two simultaneous tickets in play before, never heard anything from Delta, and even lost one of the two hen non-reimbursable, which brings me to the next point:
I can for the life of me not see how a double booking, especially if involving a non-refundable ticket, can be seen as fraud by Delta (or anyone) as Delta will make money AND have an empty seat - Ca-ching!! - where is the fraud? they got their money without giving back anything including miles, and even if they suspected fraud, should they not go to their 20+ year continuous top tier SM member who they know who is, and where he lives (and has lived for all those years) with phone number CC number etc, rather than contacting a third party through which a bogus reservation may have been made? And why reveal details unrelated to the perceived conflict? I went through the legal document defining fraudulent bookings on the DL website, and booking two overlapping tickets with none of the gains considered fraudulent ARE NOT AMONG the otherwise explicit list - so those who believe Delta has all the rights to go behind my back and reveal my travel pattern to a third party to bust perceived fraud are way off IMHO
After the initial Post I did reach out to my contact in company-1 and I think I got things smoothed out - so hopefully no harm, at least financially, she also was amazed Delta contacted them without contacting me, and said it could only have happened through cross referencing my SM number - and she declined my offer to refund the cost of them canceling the ticket if I ended up not going there. So it looks like I dodged this bullet
I read through the COC and the legal documents on the net and on Delta's website says nothing about me giving up my privacy rights for having a double booking clearly not made to meet the criteria for fraudulent bookings, and I still want to complain - I was actually looking for input as to where is the most appropriate place to send this particular complaint -
So those who think I got what I had coming: I hope you are as understanding when companies reveal YOUR personal info to third parties you do not want to know this info - because frankly, I still do not see the difference with what Delta did to me here - I still believe that somebody at Delta needs to fix it before a bigger fish than me gets really ticked off, and sue the socks off them!
Sep 2, 2015, 11:02 pm
#36
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,079
If I want to make sure I can go to either Washington or NY for an anniversary, but I don't know which city my wife will be in on that date, can I not buy two tickets, one for each destination, knowing that I will eat one of them, just to make sure I have a ticket on that date, will Delta not let me do that?
Sep 3, 2015, 1:26 am
#37
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: SEA
Programs: DL DM, DL SkyClub, DL AmEx Plat, SPG +, Hilton Silver, Hertz, Thrifty BlueChip, NEXUS/GE
Posts: 586
Just my vote - I think DLs information release was in bad form, but they don't necessarily know who answered the phone. A simple "we have 2 flights, one to XYZ and one to ZYX" may have been all that was said.
I hate (and I mean HATE) having anyone buy my flights for countless reasons. Nothing I do is top secret/confidential, but I find it bad form to basically outline where I'm going next and - as has happened to me before - who is paying for what potion of what trip. For all my travels and engagements, I politely tell them I much prefer to book my tickets and be reimbursed. This is ALSO because j know I will get all the alerts and all, not them - including, but not limited to changes in iten because I had another event arise.
That's just my opinion. Sorry for the boat you're in. Don't think anything is "wrong" here, just not ideal.
I hate (and I mean HATE) having anyone buy my flights for countless reasons. Nothing I do is top secret/confidential, but I find it bad form to basically outline where I'm going next and - as has happened to me before - who is paying for what potion of what trip. For all my travels and engagements, I politely tell them I much prefer to book my tickets and be reimbursed. This is ALSO because j know I will get all the alerts and all, not them - including, but not limited to changes in iten because I had another event arise.
That's just my opinion. Sorry for the boat you're in. Don't think anything is "wrong" here, just not ideal.
Sep 3, 2015, 1:38 am
#38
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AADULtArer
Posts: 5,659
Just my vote - I think DLs information release was in bad form, but they don't necessarily know who answered the phone. A simple "we have 2 flights, one to XYZ and one to ZYX" may have been all that was said.
I hate (and I mean HATE) having anyone buy my flights for countless reasons. Nothing I do is top secret/confidential, but I find it bad form to basically outline where I'm going next and - as has happened to me before - who is paying for what potion of what trip. For all my travels and engagements, I politely tell them I much prefer to book my tickets and be reimbursed. This is ALSO because j know I will get all the alerts and all, not them - including, but not limited to changes in iten because I had another event arise.
That's just my opinion. Sorry for the boat you're in. Don't think anything is "wrong" here, just not ideal.
I hate (and I mean HATE) having anyone buy my flights for countless reasons. Nothing I do is top secret/confidential, but I find it bad form to basically outline where I'm going next and - as has happened to me before - who is paying for what potion of what trip. For all my travels and engagements, I politely tell them I much prefer to book my tickets and be reimbursed. This is ALSO because j know I will get all the alerts and all, not them - including, but not limited to changes in iten because I had another event arise.
That's just my opinion. Sorry for the boat you're in. Don't think anything is "wrong" here, just not ideal.
My employees travel on our travel policies, not the clients.
Op has a much bigger problem consulting for competitors for whom presence of client Xis a problem for client Y, and vice versa. When you get caught you will lose both. People move around and they do talk.
Last edited by LaserSailor; Sep 3, 2015 at 1:44 am
Sep 3, 2015, 1:49 am
#39
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: SEA
Programs: DL DM, DL SkyClub, DL AmEx Plat, SPG +, Hilton Silver, Hertz, Thrifty BlueChip, NEXUS/GE
Posts: 586
My work flights are always paid in full by the appropriate parties, so it's not an issue of the dollars. When I work with various universities and/or state/gov't agencies more questions can get asked - if they get a clearly defined receipt, no questions. That's what I've learned.
My SO buys all his own tickets always - that is his company policy. In my line of work, that is not always the case and/or someone wants to be "helpful" (with good intention) - just they aren't an experienced traveler and give bad connections or something I just don't like as a very frequent traveler.
Different industries are different, for sure.
Sep 3, 2015, 1:51 am
#40
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: SEA
Programs: DL DM, DL SkyClub, DL AmEx Plat, SPG +, Hilton Silver, Hertz, Thrifty BlueChip, NEXUS/GE
Posts: 586
Sep 3, 2015, 5:08 am
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSY; 2-time FT Fantasy Football Champ, now in recovery.
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Posts: 14,517
Okay, how about this FT-hypothetical?
Husband travels frequently for work. Wife fears he may be traveling instead to see visit a mistress. She knows when he is traveling, but not where. So all she has to do is book another ticket in his name for that date, to anywhere, and then wait for Delta to call with the conflict details...
Husband travels frequently for work. Wife fears he may be traveling instead to see visit a mistress. She knows when he is traveling, but not where. So all she has to do is book another ticket in his name for that date, to anywhere, and then wait for Delta to call with the conflict details...
Sep 3, 2015, 6:46 am
#42
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
I don't buy the argument that DL had a good reason to contact the buyer of the second ticket, and especially do not see any justification in divulging explicit details of the first in this particular case.
There are many reasonable and acceptable situations in which conflicting bookings will exist. This has become reality partly due to the evolution of air travel policies over the decades as dictated by the airlines themselves. Restrictive fares might make canceling the reservation a moot point; perhaps there are two possible outcomes to a travel plan and with price fluctuations so common and seats filling up quickly, securing both at the same time is the safest course of action. Or, refundable fares mean canceling or rebooking anytime. Or, perhaps the pax is just too busy to deal with the situation at the present moment. Or perhaps it's an honest mistake.
There is, in my eyes, zero practical justification for what Delta did.
There are many reasonable and acceptable situations in which conflicting bookings will exist. This has become reality partly due to the evolution of air travel policies over the decades as dictated by the airlines themselves. Restrictive fares might make canceling the reservation a moot point; perhaps there are two possible outcomes to a travel plan and with price fluctuations so common and seats filling up quickly, securing both at the same time is the safest course of action. Or, refundable fares mean canceling or rebooking anytime. Or, perhaps the pax is just too busy to deal with the situation at the present moment. Or perhaps it's an honest mistake.
There is, in my eyes, zero practical justification for what Delta did.
From DL's perspective, there may be good reasons for people to purchase "impossible" bookings, but they are not acceptable to DL. Inventory spoilage simply drives up others costs.
To be clear, DL may have become more vigilant lately and it may be that holding a ticket booked by a third-party who is not a TA was a red flag, but DL is far from the toughest. At least DL notified the purchaser of the first ticket. AA is known to simply cancel both, leaving one to find out when one next checks or perhaps when one can't check in.
The question of whether Company A would be upset to learn that OP works for Company B as well is an entirely different situation and that isn't really an FT discussion area.
Sep 3, 2015, 7:31 am
#43
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AADULtArer
Posts: 5,659
Okay, how about this FT-hypothetical?
Husband travels frequently for work. Wife fears he may be traveling instead to see visit a mistress. She knows when he is traveling, but not where. So all she has to do is book another ticket in his name for that date, to anywhere, and then wait for Delta to call with the conflict details...
Husband travels frequently for work. Wife fears he may be traveling instead to see visit a mistress. She knows when he is traveling, but not where. So all she has to do is book another ticket in his name for that date, to anywhere, and then wait for Delta to call with the conflict details...
The breach of the OP PII would seem to me to be covered under the DL clause if investigating impossible itineraries for fraud. Case dismissed.
Sep 3, 2015, 8:37 am
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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I'll chime in:
- I don't know whether what DL did is legal or not based on CoC and applicable law, but it's certainly bad form.
- As others have said, DL has every right to contact the purchaser of a ticket with concerns about that ticket. But I think it's fair for passengers to expect them to stop short of sharing every detail about every other ticket booked for that pax. A simple generic call would have worked: "We noticed that Passenger X has a conflicting ticket on the dates of the one your recently purchased, and you may want to contact Passenger X about the conflict." No details.
- I find it funny that DL voluneteers OPs information re: an arguably unrelated ticket, but they consistently make it a PITA for me to make changes to award itins I book for my friends using my own RDMs.
- All this fuss on FT about DL actively cancelling conflicting tickets is BS, IME. I regularly book conflicting tickets (and in fact am required to do so at times) when I'm uncertain of my next destination and flights are filling up. Often, would much rather lose a $150 throwaway ticket or $200 in change fees than not be able to get to the next destination. And, OP bought a refundable ticket for their next flight - isn't the whole point of refundable tickets to be "speculative" if you're unsure whether you'll actually need the flight?
- Fully agree with OP that often, telling your client that you refuse to use their travel department for bookings they are paying for is not an option.
- I don't know whether what DL did is legal or not based on CoC and applicable law, but it's certainly bad form.
- As others have said, DL has every right to contact the purchaser of a ticket with concerns about that ticket. But I think it's fair for passengers to expect them to stop short of sharing every detail about every other ticket booked for that pax. A simple generic call would have worked: "We noticed that Passenger X has a conflicting ticket on the dates of the one your recently purchased, and you may want to contact Passenger X about the conflict." No details.
- I find it funny that DL voluneteers OPs information re: an arguably unrelated ticket, but they consistently make it a PITA for me to make changes to award itins I book for my friends using my own RDMs.
- All this fuss on FT about DL actively cancelling conflicting tickets is BS, IME. I regularly book conflicting tickets (and in fact am required to do so at times) when I'm uncertain of my next destination and flights are filling up. Often, would much rather lose a $150 throwaway ticket or $200 in change fees than not be able to get to the next destination. And, OP bought a refundable ticket for their next flight - isn't the whole point of refundable tickets to be "speculative" if you're unsure whether you'll actually need the flight?
- Fully agree with OP that often, telling your client that you refuse to use their travel department for bookings they are paying for is not an option.
Sep 3, 2015, 9:12 am
#45
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: missing YX more every day
Programs: Delta KM/PM/MM, Nexus, CLEAR, Sharriott Plat, IHG Plat, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,105
Okay, how about this FT-hypothetical?
Husband travels frequently for work. Wife fears he may be traveling instead to see visit a mistress. She knows when he is traveling, but not where. So all she has to do is book another ticket in his name for that date, to anywhere, and then wait for Delta to call with the conflict details...
Husband travels frequently for work. Wife fears he may be traveling instead to see visit a mistress. She knows when he is traveling, but not where. So all she has to do is book another ticket in his name for that date, to anywhere, and then wait for Delta to call with the conflict details...