vip66

We recently flew DL49 AMS-JFK which was delayed by 3h10min on departure and a few minutes less on arrival at JFK. Reason was given as some auxiliary power generator problems.

Delta itself never brought up any possible delay compensation, although I think they should have. Their web page also seems to incorrectly state that a passenger may be entitled to compensation if "Your flight was delayed for more than 5 hours."

I looked at EC261/2004 delay rules (and checked the much longer thread in the BA forum) but remain confused. The rules look somewhat contradictory to me:

1. On EU passenger rights site it is stated that if the flight "arrives more than 3 hours late on arrival at the final destination stated on your ticket, you may be entitled to compensation".
2. In the AIR PASSENGER RIGHTS EU COMPLAINT FORM, however, the Long Delays are defined based on the departure delay, according to distance traveled. Which in the case of DL49 would imply delays >4h.

A wikipedia article suggests that the >3h on arrival was based on a few court cases.

I've read posts by a few other folks here who had positive experience with Delta honoring 261/2004 but also other negative experiences as well.

So my question is: which definition would apply to my DL49?

suvayanr

You will definitely be eligible for compensation. Based on the most recent case HUZAR vs JET2, airlines can no longer claim mechanical failures as exceptional circumstances. Be sure to reference this when you write to DL. you may also want to look at the BA forum. They have a whole thread on this.

exwannabe

On time frames, here is the quick summary:

2/3/4 hours at departure is when "incidentals" kick in (meals,...).
2/3/4 hours at arrival allows the cancellation compensation to be halved

But in addition the courts realized that the law had a big hole in it. Namely that a long delay had no compensation while a cancellation did. These should be treated the same, and the courts fixed that. So:

A 3 hour arrival delay is like a cancellation and entitled to that compensation.

From Huzar vs jet2 appeal:
OP is owed the money. But he did make it under the 4 hour rule, so only EU300 a head.

On the MX issue, it is not completely disallowed for the airline to claim exceptional circumstances. In the OP's case it is very clear though, APUs failures are certainly part of the operations.

The rule is described here:

The jet2 ruling clarified that being outside the airlines control is insufficient to claim exceptional circumstances.

vip66

So I finally got a reply from Delta, after over a month. Here's their bogus claim, denying compensation:

"I certainly understand the inconvenience caused to you and your family when Delta Flight 49 on January 5, 2015 from Amsterdam was delayed due to mechanical reason. The delay constitutes “extraordinary circumstances”. We took all the reasonable measures we could under the circumstances and made every effort to offer you care and assistance. Regulation (EC) 261/2004 does not require compensation in this event. "

Sent me a $75 voucher. So now need to pursue this case through EC, I guess?

HongKonger

You could always write them back first, cite the recent court case, and tell them that if you don't get your EUR300 per head cash you'll be following up through the proper EU channels. They'll probably pay up, and if they don't, you know what to do. Don't accept a "voucher" which can only be used on DL and has all sorts of restrictions making them difficult to use.

Often1

First question before writing back is to ask you exactly how delayed the arrival was. The departure was 3:10 late and the arrival a "few minutes less". If that "few minutes" is 11 or more, there is no delay/cancellation compensation due as it is the arrival delay which matters. The departure delay would only matter for so-called "duty of care" which is likely not a big deal here, e.g. a snack voucher or somesuch.

DL will get to that, so you should.

vip66

It was 3:05 late on arrival, so more than 3h.

My original plan was to write again and specifically state that ruling. So I'll go that route and see what happens. Hopefully, they will not drag their feet another month+.

akcae

This is a BS answer and AA seems to do the same, claiming "extraordinary circumstances" for mechanical or other reasons under airline control. People who pursued further action in EU, including taking them to court, have won. Courts and regulatory agencies have ruled repeatedly that mechanical delays do not qualify under the "extraordinary circumstances" exception and therefore 3hr+ delay for that reason certainly entitles you to compensation under EC261/2004.

I would certainly respond and tell them you don't accept their excuse and plan to pursue via courts if they don't provide you the compensation you're due.

Also, check out the AA forum -- there's a long thread with lot of reports of people successfully getting past the BS claim and getting their compensation.

MSPeconomist

I wouldn't mention court or lawyer. Just politely correct them and say that you expect to receive the compensation you're due.

akcae

Until they deny it again.

LaserSailor

And in this world of CRM, if You expect good IRROPs handling domestic, rethink the whole thing. If that isn't important to you, fire away your EU261 torpedoes.

vip66

Update:

I reiterated my request to DL again, got their final reply: "Respectfully, we are unable to offer the compensation you've requested as it's been determined by Air France's Legal team that EU compensation isn't due with regards to the delay of Delta Flight 49 to New York JFK on XX, 2015."

I am entirely unsure what AF legal team has to do with DL (except maybe that ours was a KL stock ticket, but operated by DL?)

Appears I now have to pursue this in courts?

motytrah

My observation is DL doesn't pay EU261 comp to Americans in most cases. In my opinion they are in the wrong but I would speculate some lawyer figures that it's pretty unlikely for an American to file a court case in the EU.

Some people file complaints with the regulating Airport Authority for the country. You might be able to make a complaint in English with NL authorities. I've seen in the forums where some folks have used EU based law firms that specialize in EU261 cases. It's really a matter of how much your time is worth.

EZEDoesIt

My recent ATL-CDG was delayed, cancelled, added back with a new flight number, and delayed again. Final delayed, scheduled departure was 3h55m after the original.

Did AF play around with the times & flight# so much to avoid EC261? Or am I eligible?

MSPeconomist

An airline cannot avoid liability for EC261 compensation by renumbering the flight at the last minute, although schedule changes and cancellations in advance come under different rules with a two week threshold.

Assuming that the flight was AF operated and AF marketed, you would request compensation through AF, not DL. Check the AF forum for experiences with EC261 claims. IIRC you might not get anything if the delay is under four hours.