Old Jul 14, 2015, 4:38 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: Zorak
Summary of SkyMiles Upgrade Changes

Effective Aug 1, 2015, DM's on paid fares and no companions will no longer receive complimentary upgrades JFK-LAX/SFO. Delta's reps failed to disclose this in their June 14 announcement.

For travel on or after June 1, 2016, additional fare classes are eligible for SkyMiles upgrades:
Within North American and northern South America, L/U/T fares are now eligible. (Previously only Y/B/M/H/Q/K)
For all other markets, H/Q/K fares are now eligible. (Previously only Y/B/M)

SkyMiles Upgrade Awards will also require more miles. Prices for the following markets as quoted by multiple reservations agents: (Pricing is one-way)

(current chart based on observations has been moved to this thread: Upgrading with miles)
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SkyMiles July Announcements

Old Jul 18, 2015, 4:50 am
  #256  
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Originally Posted by wschild
What a joke to essentially receive a penny per mile to redeem. You might as well get a cash-back card!
This has been said a few times, and I disagree. While I also think the devaluation sucks, Delta RDMs are still better than cash back cards when you do the math.

People with no status earn 5 RDM per MQD. Assuming that your MQD is about 80% of actual cash outlay, that's 4 RDM per dollar spent.

Even at a PWM rate of $0.01, that's a 4% rebate on your airfare, and you continue earning MQM on the "award" flights. As a PM with a DL Amex, I'm getting around 8% just using PWM, which is the current floor for redemption value.

Of course, DL could change the PWM structure, too. But until then, it's still a better return than any cash back cards, especially if you will continue flying DL due to better schedules, product, and service, which are the primary decision factors for most people not on FT.
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Old Jul 18, 2015, 10:57 am
  #257  
 
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Originally Posted by gooselee
This has been said a few times, and I disagree. While I also think the devaluation sucks, Delta RDMs are still better than cash back cards when you do the math.

People with no status earn 5 RDM per MQD. Assuming that your MQD is about 80% of actual cash outlay, that's 4 RDM per dollar spent.

Even at a PWM rate of $0.01, that's a 4% rebate on your airfare, and you continue earning MQM on the "award" flights. As a PM with a DL Amex, I'm getting around 8% just using PWM, which is the current floor for redemption value.

Of course, DL could change the PWM structure, too. But until then, it's still a better return than any cash back cards, especially if you will continue flying DL due to better schedules, product, and service, which are the primary decision factors for most people not on FT.
The amount from the card is only 2 points/dollar though. The rest you still get no matter what you use to buy the ticket. And on all non Delta purchases you just get a straight up 1 point/dollar. There is an opportunity cost to use the Delta card vs something else so your rebate numbers aren't accurate.

Say someone spends $2,300 on tickets (assume $300 are taxes so not MQD) and $5,000 elsewhere in a month using a Delta card and you end up with
General member: 15,300 miles
Silver: 19,300 miles
Gold: 21,300 miles
Plat: 23,300 miles
Diamond: 27,300 miles

Now say someone spends that same amount in a month on the same things with a non-Delta card that gives 1% cash back
General member: 10,000 miles + $73
Silver: 14.000 miles + $73
Gold: 16,000 miles + $73
Plat: 18,000 miles + $73
Diamond: 22,000 miles + $73

And that assumes there are no bonus categories like groceries/gas or anything else where they can earn more than 1%. You could do the same calculation for any card with the $73 being replaced by whatever you get for spending $7,300 on that card.
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Old Jul 18, 2015, 11:10 am
  #258  
 
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Originally Posted by 355F1
How does one get targeted with these emails? I fly over 150k MQMs every year with Delta on pure MRs and seeing the world on dirt cheap airfares.

I had 10k miles in my US Air account from flying PHX-PDX-PHX as Delta's options suck for the return home if its a Sunday.

So, I decided to get the AA Citi card two months ago and spent $3k immediately to earn 50k miles! SO now I have at least a one-way award ticket in International J! ^^ (And just for ish and giggles I looked at availability from PHX-AMS and there was low 62.5k award tickets available in probably 95% of the days I looked!!!)

I will have 278,000 MQMs with DL by Dec 31 and approximately 790,000 Skymiles. I also have the DL AMEX Reserve Card and spend $60k/year on it to get the 30k MQMs/RDMs!

But I am thinking it might make sense to switch to AA because I think I can accumulate a ton of miles with a status match and a bunch of MRs with their bonus miles earned like DL used to do for their elites.(Obviously this is assuming they don't pull a DL and changed to spend-based RDMs)

I don't travel for business. I just travel all around the world for fun because it is so cheap if you know how to find the deals, and I get a crapload of time off of work. I just did 3 days in Tokyo over the 4th of July for $620RT on DL and used some soon-to-expire GUCs to make that trip more comfy.

So....my only issue is that living in PHX gives me TONS of cheap DL MR-fares.....if I switch to AA then is it even possible to get MR-type fares from their hub????
I was a top tier elite on american my whole life until i switched to delta about 5 or 6 yrs ago because Americans hard product got so bad....american tries to woo me back from time to time and sends me targeted offers.... but now delta ff program is getting intolerable so im waiting to see if american changes their ff program or if it stays the same....if american changes ff program to united or delta style i stay with delta if no changes are made hello AA
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Old Jul 18, 2015, 11:22 am
  #259  
 
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Originally Posted by gooselee
This has been said a few times, and I disagree. While I also think the devaluation sucks, Delta RDMs are still better than cash back cards when you do the math.

People with no status earn 5 RDM per MQD. Assuming that your MQD is about 80% of actual cash outlay, that's 4 RDM per dollar spent.

Even at a PWM rate of $0.01, that's a 4% rebate on your airfare, and you continue earning MQM on the "award" flights. As a PM with a DL Amex, I'm getting around 8% just using PWM, which is the current floor for redemption value.

Of course, DL could change the PWM structure, too. But until then, it's still a better return than any cash back cards, especially if you will continue flying DL due to better schedules, product, and service, which are the primary decision factors for most people not on FT.
I guess he means getting a cash back card for regular purchases, where it makes no sense using a Delta gold/platinum/reserve card.
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Old Jul 18, 2015, 12:27 pm
  #260  
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With 2% on every purchase cash back cards being readily available, it makes no sense to put your Delta spend (and even less sense to put your everyday spend) on your Delta Amex unless you're getting more than the PWM rate of $0.01 when redeeming them. Or unless you're trying to hit your MQM boost.
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Old Jul 18, 2015, 2:20 pm
  #261  
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Originally Posted by naranjero

Check some routes you fly. Just try to switch to AA for the rest of the year, why not? You're already DM with Delta, you can always jump back.
I don't "pick" where I go. I just go where the fares are cheap. I already have HKG, CPT, & BKK planned for the next 4 months on Delta. I would like to find another $300 fare to AUA before the year's end, too. So if I make the switch to AA it will most likely be starting in January. I just wanted to know the cheapest and most efficient way to jump in headfirst with AA.

I guess my main question was: Do airlines ever put MR-type fares on sale from their own hubs?

The reason is that I hear so many people on this forum complaining that they are "hub-captive" and, for example, Delta always issues "attack fares" on AA/UA's hubs....

Originally Posted by dzflyer
I was a top tier elite on american my whole life until i switched to delta about 5 or 6 yrs ago because Americans hard product got so bad....american tries to woo me back from time to time and sends me targeted offers.... but now delta ff program is getting intolerable so im waiting to see if american changes their ff program or if it stays the same....if american changes ff program to united or delta style i stay with delta if no changes are made hello AA
Well the one thing I don't like is that I could only get 10k of EQMs after spending $40k on the AA Citi card. But then again....it would not take me very long to accumulate the additional 90k EQMs to get AA's top-tier status. And because 75% of my travel is international to very far-away places.....those EIGHT SWUs would come in pretty handy!!!
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Old Jul 18, 2015, 5:41 pm
  #262  
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Originally Posted by javabytes
With 2% on every purchase cash back cards being readily available, it makes no sense to put your Delta spend (and even less sense to put your everyday spend) on your Delta Amex unless you're getting more than the PWM rate of $0.01 when redeeming them. Or unless you're trying to hit your MQM boost.
It seems the AMEX PRG is now superior in every aspect compared to Delta AMEX. And if you must, you can transfer MR points to Delta (only if you are insane of course).
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Old Jul 18, 2015, 8:10 pm
  #263  
 
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I decided to play around with the numbers on the TCON routes, since I've done a fair number of mileage upgrades on these.

Let's assume a one way (T) fare is $250 and a one way (K) fare is $400. Previously, I'd need 12,500 miles to upgrade the (K) fare, which at the Mileage Booster rate of 3000/$60 is about $250, or about $650 total. This to me was pretty competitive with B6 Mint @ $599.

Now, it would be $250+45000 miles ($250 + $900) = $1150 or $400+35000 miles ($350 + $700) = $1050. These totals are of course completely absurd, only now AA has also gotten into the game at $1198/rt (with a lot better availability than either DL or B6)... so why would I ever do this? Oh, and with mileage upgrades I would of course have to play dumb games with availability.

So, in summary, new mileage upgrades = BIG FAIL. But we knew that already.
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Old Jul 18, 2015, 8:30 pm
  #264  
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Originally Posted by luv2ctheworld
so why would a loyal dl flyer want to continue flying dl when their product is sub par compared to the international carriers? The loyalty/redemption side is so poor that it doesn't make sense.
Originally Posted by sfozrhfco
convenience, reliability, and inertia.

It takes some people a very long time to change their behavior even when it makes sense to do so.

Not everybody is focused on the ff program and just want a convenient schedule and reliable operation.
exactly

Originally Posted by dzflyer
i'm off like a velcro prom dress to american
:d ^
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Old Jul 18, 2015, 10:36 pm
  #265  
 
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The majority of my flying is DCA-CVG. It may sound silly for a short flight, but I won't switch to AA until they dump the CRJ-200s from that route. If I am going to maintain elite status with an airline, I'd like to at least have the chance for an upgrade. Last time I checked, the upgrade percentage for single-class aircraft is 0%.

In addition, "gate" 35X is a huge annoyance. Being made to stand in freezing (or boiling hot) weather for a significant amount of time while waiting for a bus is not something I'm willing to do on a regular basis.

Last edited by KDCAflyer; Jul 18, 2015 at 10:42 pm
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Old Jul 19, 2015, 5:49 am
  #266  
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Originally Posted by Dieuwer
It seems the AMEX PRG is now superior in every aspect compared to Delta AMEX. And if you must, you can transfer MR points to Delta (only if you are insane of course).
So who do you transfer MR points to if you need to fly SkyTeam?
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Old Jul 19, 2015, 9:33 am
  #267  
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Originally Posted by sdsearch
So who do you transfer MR points to if you need to fly SkyTeam?
Don't fly SkyTeam?
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Old Jul 19, 2015, 10:16 am
  #268  
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Originally Posted by Zeeb
The amount from the card is only 2 points/dollar though. The rest you still get no matter what you use to buy the ticket. And on all non Delta purchases you just get a straight up 1 point/dollar. There is an opportunity cost to use the Delta card vs something else so your rebate numbers aren't accurate.

Say someone spends $2,300 on tickets (assume $300 are taxes so not MQD) and $5,000 elsewhere in a month using a Delta card and you end up with
General member: 15,300 miles
Silver: 19,300 miles
Gold: 21,300 miles
Plat: 23,300 miles
Diamond: 27,300 miles

Now say someone spends that same amount in a month on the same things with a non-Delta card that gives 1% cash back
General member: 10,000 miles + $73
Silver: 14.000 miles + $73
Gold: 16,000 miles + $73
Plat: 18,000 miles + $73
Diamond: 22,000 miles + $73

And that assumes there are no bonus categories like groceries/gas or anything else where they can earn more than 1%. You could do the same calculation for any card with the $73 being replaced by whatever you get for spending $7,300 on that card.
My point is that, even ignoring the DL Amex, you get more than a 1% rebate on DL spend just from the RDM earned by flying.

Using your numbers, a general member spending $2,300 on DL tickets, of which 2,000 are MQD, earns 10k RDM.

If DL goes to straight $0.01/RDM redemption, that's $100 back off $2,300, or 4.3%. Yes, that rebate has to be "spent" on DL, but I don't consider that a restraint for most people posting in this forum. And that person can still put the spend on whatever CC they want that maximizes non-SkyMiles returns.

In sum, I think that valuation should be considered to keep things in perspective when everyone here flips out about how terrible DL redemptions are. For some, they are worse/harder than in the past, yes. But viewed as a rebate-type program, they aren't really all that bad. Heck, with the numbers above, it's at least twice as good as the Costco Exec Membership that so many people love.
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Old Jul 19, 2015, 10:19 am
  #269  
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Originally Posted by gooselee
My point is that, even ignoring the DL Amex, you get more than a 1% rebate on DL spend just from the RDM earned by flying.
So what.
We were comparing credit card options, not discussing if you should fly Delta or not.
The simple math is that if 1 Skymile < $0.01, a 2% cash back card is more valuable compared to AMEX Delta.
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Old Jul 19, 2015, 12:11 pm
  #270  
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The effects of dynamic pricing can now clearly be seen in the award booking process. Importantly, your origin now seems to impact your pricing.

For example, I searched two passengers between LAX and SYD in business class on the DL non-stop. All dates booked into OK (Peak) but the pricing more than doubled on the same flights if you originated your travel in SYD instead of LAX.

LAX-SYD one-way: 175k
SYD-LAX one-way: 375k
LAX-SYD-LAX round trip: 350k
SYD-LAX-SYD round trip: 750k

LAX-SYD round trip, outbound June 1, return June 3. Books into OK (Peak) and prices at 350k per passenger round trip.


SYD-LAX one-way, travel on June 3. Books into OK (Peak) and prices at 375k per passenger one-way.


LAX-SYD, one-way, travel on June 10. Books into OK (Peak) and prices at 175k per passenger one-way.


SYD-LAX round trip, outbound June 3, return June 10. Books into OK (Peak) and prices at 750k per passenger round trip.


This same pattern is seen for other markets too. For example, ATL-CDG. Peak pricing if you originate in ATL is 147,500 one way or each way of your round trip. The same flights are 375,000 one way or each way of a round trip if you originate in CDG.

Last edited by javabytes; Jul 19, 2015 at 12:41 pm
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